MS3D Problem... Still/Again

Need help with a program come ask here

Moderators: MrVulcan, thunderchero

User avatar
jetnova16
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 2:00 am
Location: NY State
Contact:

MS3D Problem... Still/Again

Post by jetnova16 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:10 pm

Ok, I will just describe this problem through the steps I have taken to merge two ships into one because mostly, it is exactly the same way it happens other times, either with changing a texture or even creating a new MS3D model. Even along the lines of finishing one that I have downloaded that just needs completing.

**********************************************************
I created the fdiscovery+NXsaucer starship by using 2 open MS3D Windows. The ship's saucer is the NX-class Refit Saucer and the body (Secondary Hull) of the fdiscovery.sod (ship from ArmadaFleetCommand = Discovery-class). I call this ship class the "Pre-Discovery-class".

Creation:
1) In the MS3D Program with the SOD for the NX-class Refit Open, I removed by moving the Saucer Section from the rest of the ship. (Attempted fixing the ship to look like an Authentic NX-class Refit but the ideas were't working, parts were moving and or extruding that I didn't want to, I was working with a copied SOD file to preserve the original).

2) Deleted peice by peice the Saucer Section of the Discovery-class (harder than I thought, took 2 tries) (Yet again working with a copied SOD to preserve the original).

3) Attempted to merge the two remaining MS3D models together. Ended up having to do some minor rescaling first.

4) Saved the New MS3D file (fdiscovery+NX-Saucer.ms3d) after checking to see if the texture names were preserved from the original models, confirmed and checked. Copied texturs and pasted them to the working file for the new ship, and reopened the MS3D model, textures applied.

5) Saved as SOD before Hardpointing (since the model was saying it kept the original hardpoints). Tested in the game, ship appeared but small (needed rescaling), had its textures. The only problem is its weapons weren't working. Ended Game (Map Editor Test).

6) Opened up the SOD in MS3D, found that the Hardpoints were gone with just a heirarchy of the model left. Restarted Hardpointing (through the MS3D open SOD file) by double clicking "h_hardpoint", adding the joints where I wanted them, and renaming them as a Hardpoint (h_hp??) (?? = numbers), reclicking h_hardpoint and adding the next joint, all the way from h_hp01 - h_hp32) (Yes, there are more Hardpoints than the original two models used to create the new ship).

7) After re-hardpointing the model, I saved the open SOD file as a MS3D file (that is the one that you can clearly see the hardpoints are there in the model). Exported the hardpointed model to a new SOD file (using the same name as the original "fdiscovery-nosaucer.SOD" (the ODF file has the same name that is why I used the name) and saved it to my laptop's desktop. Copied and pasted the new SOD into the Armada II SOD File.)

8) Tested new SOD file in game with the ODF file, the ship wouldn't use her main weapons when ordered to (Specials worked as long as they were Self Destruct and or its Hull Polarization, its Point Defense Phaser Array and Ent. Era Grappler wouldn't activate though). Set the ship against a Federation ship as "Team 2" the Pre-Discovery-class (fdiscovery-nosaucer) was easily destroyed and never fired her weapons at all.

9) Checked the ingame SOD file to see why this was the case, the ship's hardpoints were gone from the SOD. Checked the copy on the desktop, same thing, hardpoints gone. I then checked the MS3D file and the hardpoints were there so I resaved as SOD and yet again the same problem occured.

**************
I don't know why this keeps happening to me when ever I create or edit a model in MS3D, but it always does. The same exact thing all the time with the ships (or stations) not using their weapons. I swear that I am following every single tutorial that I have been able to get my hands on for using MS3D, editing a model and even creating your own, but this is always happening. Why? Is there a step that I am missing?

Here is the download link to the pictures of the problem and showing the hardpoints in MS3D and then through the SOD without the hardpoints.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4TKY4S9O

User avatar
MrVulcan
Site Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Site  Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:00 am
Location: TO CA

Post by MrVulcan » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:22 pm

The problem is most certainly in exporting the model into SOD. I'm not on my modding machine at the moment, and I don't use milkshape any more, so I can't tell you from memory how the hardpoints are added. But double-check very closely that the hardpoint naming is done correctly.

Are you able to add things like sprite nodes and emitters? I'm guessing that the procedure is similar. Try adding those red and green lights somewhere on the ship to see if the exporter keeps them.

If anything looks funny or different in the hierarchy from how it is shown in tutorials, that could be causing problems too.

Good luck :)

User avatar
jetnova16
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 2:00 am
Location: NY State
Contact:

Post by jetnova16 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:42 pm

MrVulcan wrote:The problem is most certainly in exporting the model into SOD. I'm not on my modding machine at the moment, and I don't use milkshape any more, so I can't tell you from memory how the hardpoints are added. But double-check very closely that the hardpoint naming is done correctly.

Are you able to add things like sprite nodes and emitters? I'm guessing that the procedure is similar. Try adding those red and green lights somewhere on the ship to see if the exporter keeps them.

If anything looks funny or different in the hierarchy from how it is shown in tutorials, that could be causing problems too.

Good luck :)
I have never added the Red and Green lightes to models yet, I actually like seeing them but I still haven't understood the process yet. The same is with adding Sprite Nodes and emitters. I was hoping to get Hardpointing down first.

MajorPayne
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 1752
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 2:00 am

Post by MajorPayne » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:32 pm

jetnova. Your best bet, if your having this much trouble is to "obtain" a copy of 3dmax 5 or earlier. Hardpointing a model is a hell of alot easier.

User avatar
jetnova16
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 2:00 am
Location: NY State
Contact:

Post by jetnova16 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:42 pm

MajorPayne wrote:jetnova. Your best bet, if your having this much trouble is to "obtain" a copy of 3dmax 5 or earlier. Hardpointing a model is a hell of alot easier.
I would if I could, but I can't afford to do so right now. Money is actually tight and there are neccessities that I have to buy first and then there is't much left for computer programs. Thus I am stuck with MS3D (which is activated) or to get a trial version of 3dmax 5, I had a Trial version but it actually expired.

MajorPayne
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 1752
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 2:00 am

Post by MajorPayne » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:48 pm

do you use icq??

User avatar
jetnova16
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 2:00 am
Location: NY State
Contact:

Post by jetnova16 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:32 pm

MajorPayne wrote:do you use icq??
No, I never really even heard of it. I use AIM and Facebook IM. Nothing other than that really. I decided to use what my friends use the most.

User avatar
MrVulcan
Site Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Site  Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:00 am
Location: TO CA

Post by MrVulcan » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:34 pm

Although unlikely that this causes your models to not have hardpoints, I recommend that when you are exporting (saving into sod), try to use simple file names for SODs with only alphanumeric characters. ie, no dashes, plus signs, ampersands, etc, and no spaces.

Also, in the zip file you uploaded, one of the images had a hugely long file name, which prevented me from opening it on an XP machine... lol.

I strongly agree with MaP that hardpointing is vastly simpler in 3ds max. However, modelling in 3ds max has a steeper learning curve. So, it up to you to decide which program you want to stick to for learning.

Anyhow, read over any tutorials that tell you specifically how to hardpoint a model in milkshape. One that I found helpful was written by MaP: Milkshape 3d Tutorial by Major A Payne

The thing you really have to get right is when you're creating h_hp## joints, is to make sure you're attaching it to the h_hardpoints joint. To do that, make sure to select the h_hardpoint joint before creating the new joint. Similarly, h_hardpoints has to be attached to the h_root joint.

Tip: you can see better where you're putting a joint, as well as whether it is attached properly if you make the bone and joint sizes much smaller.

User avatar
jetnova16
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 2:00 am
Location: NY State
Contact:

Post by jetnova16 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:44 pm

MrVulcan wrote:Although unlikely that this causes your models to not have hardpoints, I recommend that when you are exporting (saving into sod), try to use simple file names for SODs with only alphanumeric characters. ie, no dashes, plus signs, ampersands, etc, and no spaces.

Also, in the zip file you uploaded, one of the images had a hugely long file name, which prevented me from opening it on an XP machine... lol.

I strongly agree with MaP that hardpointing is vastly simpler in 3ds max. However, modelling in 3ds max has a steeper learning curve. So, it up to you to decide which program you want to stick to for learning.

Anyhow, read over any tutorials that tell you specifically how to hardpoint a model in milkshape. One that I found helpful was written by MaP: Milkshape 3d Tutorial by Major A Payne

The thing you really have to get right is when you're creating h_hp## joints, is to make sure you're attaching it to the h_hardpoints joint. To do that, make sure to select the h_hardpoint joint before creating the new joint. Similarly, h_hardpoints has to be attached to the h_root joint.

Tip: you can see better where you're putting a joint, as well as whether it is attached properly if you make the bone and joint sizes much smaller.
Thank you for the Tutorial, I downloaded it and I'll see later if it is one of the ones I already have, I have so many different ones.

If for the bone and Joint sizes you are talking about is the Red Circle (Shape) or Green when "h_hardpoints is selected, I remember they used to be smaller, but after looking at one model that I downloaded they all started to appear bigger and they used to be smaller, I don't even know how to make them go back. I have been trying to experiement and at times have turned off the "Show Skeleton" option just to get rid of it to see what a ship or station looks like if it doesn't have a BMP Image.

MajorPayne
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 1752
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 2:00 am

Post by MajorPayne » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:56 pm

jetnova. I'll do you a favour in the next couple of days and upload 3dmax to megaupload (never thought I would use it). I know this will mean you'll need some help to use the program but that will come in time.

User avatar
jetnova16
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 2:00 am
Location: NY State
Contact:

Post by jetnova16 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:21 pm

MajorPayne wrote:jetnova. I'll do you a favour in the next couple of days and upload 3dmax to megaupload (never thought I would use it). I know this will mean you'll need some help to use the program but that will come in time.
Thank you. That will be a major help. :)

MajorPayne
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 1752
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 2:00 am

Post by MajorPayne » Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:01 am

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FQLT1CFM

Oh something I forgot to ask before posting this link. What OS does your laptop/pc use?? If its windows 7 your going to have a hell of a time installing this as I had to revert back to xp to use it. I scoured the net for several days looking for someway to get 5 working but to no avail. Only versions 6 and above will work, and theres no work around because of the cdilla protection that 5 uses.

User avatar
jetnova16
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 2:00 am
Location: NY State
Contact:

Post by jetnova16 » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:02 pm

MajorPayne wrote:http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FQLT1CFM

Oh something I forgot to ask before posting this link. What OS does your laptop/pc use?? If its windows 7 your going to have a hell of a time installing this as I had to revert back to xp to use it. I scoured the net for several days looking for someway to get 5 working but to no avail. Only versions 6 and above will work, and theres no work around because of the cdilla protection that 5 uses.
I am still using Windows Vista. Will that be alright?

MajorPayne
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 1752
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 2:00 am

Post by MajorPayne » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:53 pm

Not sure. The only way to find out would be to get it and try. I've not tried max 5 with vista myself.

User avatar
MrVulcan
Site Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Site  Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:00 am
Location: TO CA

Post by MrVulcan » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:18 am

I tried running 3dsmax 5 on Vista, and encountered the same cdilla error.

Maybe you can try running it through virtual win xp.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users