MS3D Problem... Still/Again

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MajorPayne
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Post by MajorPayne » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:48 pm

I did say you may have to realign some of the joints to where you want them.

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jetnova16
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Post by jetnova16 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:58 pm

MajorPayne wrote:I did say you may have to realign some of the joints to where you want them.
Misunderstood, though that was only for if h_scene root had to be changed.

How do I go about selecting and fixing just a joint?
Is there an option to flip/move them into place?

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Post by MajorPayne » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:03 pm

Theres no option that I know of for flipping the actual joints. I mean its up to you if you want to rehardpoint the model but to select a single joint you go to the JOINTS tab of the command pallette and double click the one you need to edit.

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jetnova16
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Post by jetnova16 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:34 pm

MajorPayne wrote:Theres no option that I know of for flipping the actual joints. I mean its up to you if you want to rehardpoint the model but to select a single joint you go to the JOINTS tab of the command pallette and double click the one you need to edit.
I have decided that rehardpointing the model might just be the easiest way to go with this. So I am going to do just that by using the ODF file I created and the original MS3D file as a reference where to place the hardpoints. Before doing that, I have imported the original 3DS File into MS3D, and had to set it so the ship will move right in the game. I have saved that new MS3D file as Version 2 and can now hardpoint that version.

Hopefully, this will fix the problems with that ship.
Will let you know though.

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jetnova16
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Post by jetnova16 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:53 pm

Ok, my Klingon OnSlaught Class starship has been rehardpointed and exported to two different SOD files, there is one A2 SOD file and one A1 SOD file.

The problems that I have reported for the A2 SOD are still occuring with that SOD, but the A1 SOD is working just fine and the weapons are all firing. Plus, this time the ship is moving in the right direction.

The differences in the SODs is funny though, the A2 version is smaller than the A1 SOD which doesn't matter, its just strange.

*********************************************************
For the Klingon Kvortcha Class starship, the same A2 SOD problem is occuring but the A1 SOD isn't showing up at all and I don't mean invisible this time. Instead, this ship is showing up in the game as the White Box with the Red Bug on it, the SOD file is in the game and in the SOD folder. Because of this problem, this ship isn't using her weapons at all either.

(Note: I created this ship the way Major Payne mentioned here, meaning I added in the "mesh group joints".
The Mesh Groups (at least from the Groups Tab) are:
1) kvcha2
2) kvcha5
3) kvcha6
4) kvcha1
5) kvcha3
6) kvcha4

See the above mentioned Mesh Groups:


See the above mentioned Mesh Groups added at the end of the Joints Tab, Hardpointing was done earlier.


***********************************************************
With the A2 and A1 SOD Importer/Exporter that I was given, both times I was also given the following file that I thought allows MS3D to actually work with Hardpoints:

Code: Select all

msHardpoints.dll
Is it possible that this file is causing all the errors that I am having with hardpoints and weapons working on A2 SODs in my game?

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Post by MajorPayne » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:47 am

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that is the DLL that controls the usage of the bones feature as its not installed with the MS3d importer/exporter for SID files that I know of. I may be wrong on this and the only real way to tell is to take zip the dll file, then delete the unzipped on so its not going to be loaded by MS3d and try it. If it does throw a hissy fit at least its been zipped up and you just need to transfer the file back from the zip to the MS3d directory.

Note that A1 SOD files are compatible with A2. The primary difference between the two formats is that A1 doesn't use alpha channels in the texture files to show lighting.

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Post by pepperman » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:58 pm

I'd recommend you grab the export plug-in from the Milkshape site and start afresh to ensure nothing was corupted.

http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch/ms3d/download.html

Also, if you have the nonstock ship importer, I'd delete the hierarchy and export the model out as is. The standard importer will create a basic hierarchy for you. You can import that ship back in and had the hardpoints, works every time.

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Post by jetnova16 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:45 pm

pepperman wrote:I'd recommend you grab the export plug-in from the Milkshape site and start afresh to ensure nothing was corupted.

http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch/ms3d/download.html

Also, if you have the nonstock ship importer, I'd delete the hierarchy and export the model out as is. The standard importer will create a basic hierarchy for you. You can import that ship back in and had the hardpoints, works every time.
I tried that Exporter all ready and I was still having the problems that I mentioned. I had tried that first and it wasn't working. I am not going to try their exporter again when I know it has been doing the exact same thing as the one that I am using now.

I try the idea with the Standard Importer for Stock Models and it didn't work like that at all. It still had the same problems with the ships ingame. And using a stock model's basic hiearchy was causing more trouble because the models that need to be hardpointed and completed with the whole hierarchy were requiring more work than doing the work from scratch.

*************************************************************
MajorPayne wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that is the DLL that controls the usage of the bones feature as its not installed with the MS3d importer/exporter for SID files that I know of. I may be wrong on this and the only real way to tell is to take zip the dll file, then delete the unzipped on so its not going to be loaded by MS3d and try it. If it does throw a hissy fit at least its been zipped up and you just need to transfer the file back from the zip to the MS3d directory.
I'm going to give that a try and see what happens. I'll report the results later.
MajorPayne wrote:Note that A1 SOD files are compatible with A2. The primary difference between the two formats is that A1 doesn't use alpha channels in the texture files to show lighting.
By any chance, since I have seen many A1 SODs work in A2, is the Klingon Kvortcha Class starship use alpha channels? (It is the ship in the recent MS3D pictures above.)

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Post by MajorPayne » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:10 pm

No idea. A good way to check though is just right click the file and look at the properties. File size with an alpha channel:

1024*1024 pixels will be 3072kb/3073kb
512*512 pixels will be 768kb/769kb
256*256 pixels will be 192kb/193kb
128*128 pixels will be 48kb/49kb

The alpha channel adds around 45-50% of the filesize again.

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Post by pepperman » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:57 pm

I know I have hardpointed many ship and haven't experienced too many problems using Milkshape and the plug-ins. I do recall that location of the root node is important. I believe it is typically centered at (0,0,0) on the x,y,z plane.

When I make a model from scatch, I export it out as an A1 sod file without creating a hierarchy. Then using the nonstock importer, I import it back in and finsh the hierarchy adding hardpoints and the light. Always works fine for me...but i supsoe your mileage will vary with usage. lol

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Post by jetnova16 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:17 pm

pepperman wrote:I know I have hardpointed many ship and haven't experienced too many problems using Milkshape and the plug-ins. I do recall that location of the root node is important. I believe it is typically centered at (0,0,0) on the x,y,z plane.

When I make a model from scatch, I export it out as an A1 sod file without creating a hierarchy. Then using the nonstock importer, I import it back in and finsh the hierarchy adding hardpoints and the light. Always works fine for me...but i supsoe your mileage will vary with usage. lol
I have the newest version of MS3D and its actually a Beta that has been out for awhile. I don't like trying risky things with it.

For placing the h_Scene Root joint, I have always had to manually move it to 0,0,0 but it at times isn't there perfectly. Is there a way to actually get it in the right spot automatically?

For creating a model, I normally just do it all in MS3D and then export the ship or station to a SOD file, now thinking about going with A1 SODs more since their weapons actually work for me in the game then. I mostly complete the models like that because it seems all the models I download actually just need to be hardpointed (except they aren't fully hardpointed :( which makes this type of problem nerve racking to the point of anger). I don't create my own models any more because I am totally discouraged by what MS3D keeps doing.

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Post by MajorPayne » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:42 am

Yes there is a way to centre a joint etc perfectly in the centre. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y279/major58/p108.jpg

Select the MOVE funtion. Make sure the XYZ are all set to 0.0 and where it says "Relative" use the drop down arrow and change this to ABSOLUTE. That will centre it in the middle.

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Post by jetnova16 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:24 pm

MajorPayne wrote:Yes there is a way to centre a joint etc perfectly in the centre. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y279/major58/p108.jpg

Select the MOVE funtion. Make sure the XYZ are all set to 0.0 and where it says "Relative" use the drop down arrow and change this to ABSOLUTE. That will centre it in the middle.
Thank you Major Payne. I have been so discouraged with never getting an answer to that question (not here) that I just stopped asking it.

Oh, and for the Hardpoints.dll file, it turns out it was needed.

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Post by jetnova16 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:12 am

Just an Update on this problem. I am still having this problem occuring with A2 related SOD files but some of the ones saved as an A1 SOD file are working in the game and using their weapons. I say some because the ones that have more than geometry to include in the model aren't showing up in the game right, instead they are the White Box with the Red Bug on it even though the SOD file is included in the game. (Could this happen if the Textures have a Lightmap (the blinking lights on the ships)?) I am also noticing that even though the A2 SOD file isn't working in the game, the ships are the right size well the A1 SOD file needs major rescaling just to get them looking right through the ODF code:

Code: Select all

scaleSOD =
I guess I shouldn't complain about that part since they are at least using their weapons.

Well because of this MS3D problem with A2 SOD files and A1 SOD files, after I am done with my Star Trek Armada II Spanning The Generations Mod and also the StarGate Armada Mod that I am working on, I am going to uninstall the MS3D Program and also 3DS Max 5 (since that won't even run on Windows Vista and all attempts to fix that have failed). I figure that this course of action will be best instead of keeping 2 programs that don't want to work.

Thank you all though for attempting to help solve this issue with MS3D :) and I'm just sorry that nothing actually worked to solve it. :(

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Post by MrVulcan » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:11 pm

Don't give up just a few steps from the finish line :P

The reason that some SODs appear as boxes (SOD off box) is most likely due to misnamed joints. Make sure that the spelling is right for all mesh joints.

More importantly, if you have any sprites or plasma emitters, those must be properly defined in emitter.spr (or whichever other spr file). First thing to try is to delete any sprites and emitters that the model has.

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