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Shielding cloaked ships

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:53 am
by Polk
Is there a line of code I can put in the cloak odfs to have a ship leave its shields up when cloaked?[/i]

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:51 am
by Elrond
That's what I was trying to find out - the only thing that can be used so far was the Shield Remod wave - that will give a ship the ability to resist all fire on it, which shields it even when cloaked - but it doesn't work how the shields do - it works for a certain amount of time.

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:27 pm
by CptBenSisko
Or the Sovvy's Corbomite Reflector which works on Special Energy. Let me guess you have the Scimitar with the ability to fire while cloak and you want to have it's shields still up? Also how is there a way to keep the target ship from getting a target lock once you have fired while cloaked?

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:35 pm
by Elrond
I know that the Corbomite Reflector will not act quite as a shield because I have tried it on ships with a cloak enhancer and a phase cloak (really cool to do by the way). One important way it doesn't act like a shield: if there is shield protection on a ship (that means no weapons can damage the systems until shields are exhausted) it will not apply to using the Corbomite Reflector while cloaked - because the shields are offline still. That means even with a Corbomite Reflector, the systems will still be damaged even if the ship has shieldProtection = 1 in its odf file.
I mention this because I found a couple of years back that the phase cloak not only makes you go through stuff, but it also prevents most weapons from hitting you - major exceptions being 01.) black holes (those will destroy your ship if you go thru them and 02.) transporter beams - away teams can still be transported to your ship since your shields are down no matter what. The practical issue here is to get a ship to have the ability to have shields while cloaked so that boarding teams cannot board a ship that is cloaked (kind of a cheat, but it is how some ships like the Scimitar work).
Another practical issue that has come to mind is the use of a secondary shield (another Scimitar ability I must add). I've tried to do this, but it's hard-coded. As I have found, there is no conventional way to add a secondary shield or the ability for a shield to exist while a ship is cloaked. Those are two things that would be awesome, though it would probably mean having a ship that is 01.) impenetrable to enemy fire if it uses a phase cloak and 02.) impenetrable to landing parties. That scenario would create a virtually indestructable ship. Another scenario that is more Scimitar-like would be having a regular cloak with cloak enhancer and the ability to have shields, perhaps even secondary shields, while cloaked. In this scenario, the ship could be hit by enemy fire but could not be boarded until the shields were exhausted. The reason it could be hit is that it is not using a phase cloak but a regular cloak. So we have here one realistic scenario where the Scimitar could be hit but still have shields while cloaked. Also, we have the unrealistic option of having a completely indestructable ship. This unrealistic scenario, I may add, is possible with Species 8472 ships - as they have no crew and thus you cannot board their ships. That means if an 8472 ship has a phase cloak and cloak enhancer, it cannot be hit and it will not be boarded! I think this is kinda why the ability of having shields while cloaked is something that in Armada 2 that would require some unconventional modding and crazy techniques that I have not in my programming experience.
In conclusion, through my time of trying to have secondary shields and shields on a cloaked ship, I have found that while I was able to produce really cool modifications of the ships and weapons in the game, the only thing that comes close to having a secondary shield or a shield while cloaked is using a Corbomite Reflector or the Shield Remodulation method. Hey, for all we know, the Scimitar's secondary shields could be similar to a corbomite reflector except that it reflects nothing and no one can transport through it when primary shields are exhausted.
Still, I think it would be cool to have shields while cloaked on a ship. That would make for a glorious battle in the game!

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:53 pm
by Phantom
This is a stupid question but why dont u put in

Armour = 2000

Or play with the system hit chances so that scoring a direct hit under cloak would like have a low probability of doing damage to destroy systems?

That is how my Scimitar is coded up and the armour extends to the Defiant Refit too (200) it just means that it lasts longer in a fight than a normal ship. You cannot recharge armour strength though nor is it sorta visable, it just makes the ship last longer depending on the hull strikes made when the shields fail


Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:34 pm
by Elrond
hmmm... that's a pretty good option though I agree it would have no visible effects except that the ship would last longer in combat. That would kinda act like a sort of defensive countermeasure (like chaff and flare on a fighter jet). It would divert the firepower to somewhere else so that the ship wouldn't be hit. It's a pretty good idea - especially for construction ships because usually they aren't heavily shielded and don't stand a chance in direct combat (unless they are given a phaser or corbomite reflector or something like that).
I know that on one version of the Scimitar, it has a point defense system like that on the Nebula class but except that it is automatic (I think). The shield remod and corbomite reflector also help to act as a secondary shield. I actually attempted one method that I thought may work: I thought that perhaps a special weapon could actually be like an object like a ship or station that acts like the planetary shield. This weapon would act more like a corbomite reflector except that it wouldn't reflect anything but just absorb impacts. I am going to give your idea a shot because I know that would work - it would divert firepower so that a battle would act like the Nemesis battle where the Enterprise was firing blindly. I could use the hit chance command line in a main phaser and photon file where all or most phaser and torpedo files get their information. Of course, regardless of if the Scimitar (for example) would be cloaked or not cloaked, the phasers and photons would act the same.
I know that somehow the classlabel for a phase cloak includes the aspect of having any ship that fires at a ship in phase cloak miss every time (in other words, ships in phase cloak aren't hit by anything except of course transporter parties). One thing that I don't think can be reproduced on a ship in the game is the ability of the Scimitar to be cloaked while the Enterprise is unable to send landing parties. I have every option with a shield cloak except for protection against landing parties.
I came up with the idea of secondary shields from Nemesis, however the idea of cloak shielding came up when my ship (which was in phase cloak) was attacked by a Borg wedge - they were beaming landing parties aboard my ship and that is when I knew that a ship in phase cloak is not completely vulnerable. I also mentioned the fact that a black hole will destroy anything that goes through it, whether it enters via tranwarp drive or goes through the event horizon while phase cloaked.
Oh well, it's a pretty complicated subject, but it's neat to consider! Thanks for getting me to consider another method - I would say that in combination with a corbomite shield and shield remodulation would work pretty much as a shield should. Using a corbomite reflector while cloaked is the closest thing to cloak shielding - except for the fact that landing parties can go through. But it's quite obvious that after 2380 that most races have the ability to penetrate enemy shields with a landing party (if Schinzon can project a hologram of himself in Picard's ready room and transport Picard aboard his ship without either ship lowering shields, then I guess transporting through shields is entirely possible). I made a special weapon that acts like the transporter and the Borg holding beam in that it can transport landing parties through a shield. The effect looks real, but the only thing is changing the sprites used!
Also, I will try the Armour idea. That sounds pretty good as well - on the contrary, that was a very good question! :lol: Thanks and Happy Memorial Day to all!

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:32 pm
by Polk
Thanks. I'm looking foward to modifying my scimitar once I get it put back in the mod as I just reloaded armada.