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Star Trek:Isint it communisim?

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:24 am
by brobrodeel
Star Trek is like perfected communism everybody is equal and there isnt money to change that or anything.Post ur thoghts on this and dont flame me.Im sure that i havent mentioned all the reasons that it is but hey. :lol:

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:27 pm
by Straxus
I always perceived it as communism. The way they describe it in movies and series, sounds like it to me... Just suprised more people dont realize it...

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:11 pm
by CaptSyf
I think the only reason that most people are against the whole communism form of government is because of the ones we have already seen. Russia, China, Cuba, etc. These are not very good exaimples. They are what happens when people don't control the government. Now looking at Star Trek, we see a different kind of government. Yes, you could call it a "form" of communism, but it is much more than that. It's government is a blending of the better parts of different types of Government. Communism, for it's lack of money, but instead equality. Republic for it's control by the people. Democracy for the voting system. And Confederacy for it's joining of nations/planets for the greater good of all it's member states, including military protection, yet respecting the soveriegn rights of those same individual states. Any Planet in the UFP is still it's own planet. It is the constitutional law of the UFP. So, looking at it this way, it really is not purely communism, but a Federation. :wink:

Perfected Communism

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:54 pm
by Straxx
This form of government would be most ideal for all humanity. Our society needs to consider the advantages of having a government that is "By the People, Of the People, For the People", not seemingly "By the wealthy, Of the wealthy, For the special interest". Everyone knows that the aquisition of wealth is corrupting our way of life. We have become TOO dependant on this need. So much, that our enemies know our true weakness, (prime example: 9/11), and have exploited it. Clearly, we were caught with our pants down that day. Star Trek shows that we do not necessarily need money for things that we need to live. We need knowledge to enrich our lives. I know that I won't live to see this way of life in effect. But I can always hope that my children would help push for this new society.

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:36 am
by Twitch
One of the problems with communism as we know it is the associated repression of independent thought and liberties apart from any making of society better. It's always been "give up your liberites for a safe and secure society."

But as Ben Frankiln said, "Those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither."

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:13 am
by Captain_H
CaptSyf wrote:I think the only reason that most people are against the whole communism form of government is because of the ones we have already seen. Russia, China, Cuba, etc. These are not very good exaimples. They are what happens when people don't control the government. Now looking at Star Trek, we see a different kind of government. Yes, you could call it a "form" of communism, but it is much more than that. It's government is a blending of the better parts of different types of Government. Communism, for it's lack of money, but instead equality. Republic for it's control by the people. Democracy for the voting system. And Confederacy for it's joining of nations/planets for the greater good of all it's member states, including military protection, yet respecting the soveriegn rights of those same individual states. Any Planet in the UFP is still it's own planet. It is the constitutional law of the UFP. So, looking at it this way, it really is not purely communism, but a Federation. :wink:
Now I agree with his idea and not the whole "the Federation is a communist state" bit.

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:38 am
by Zered003
I have always seen the federation as a perfect mix between communism and democracy. The leaders are voted in and there is a legistlative body that makes the rules. Basicly the structure of government is much like democracy but everyone is truely equal so in that sense it takes on some of the better qualities of communism. In a democracy the states still have thier own idenity. Maybe because the federations government is a perfect mix between democratic and communist governments that most people have trouble figuring out exactly what type it is.

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:09 am
by Cpt_Geddes
blah blah blah blah.

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:22 am
by CenturionV
i've always just ignored the fact that they have said no "money", and taken it meaning they have no actual physical cash, and instead use the more efficient, computer credit, with hard money behind it, system. Scotty bought a boat, jake and basically everyone else on DS9 pay for quarks holodecks, beer, etc.

Obviously if other people beyond the federation are using "money" and there is any trade with the federation, they must either be using currency, or a barter system. Its obvious that there are still valuables that cannot be simply replicated, and to say there is no buying and selling in the federation would be to ignore a basic principle of intelligent life.

This system would work by having a valuable resource, maybe latinum, federation members would be "paid", eatch person in the federation would then have a "bank" account to which they would charge there latinum credits, if they wished they could also withdraw there money in the form of actual latinum, however this is almost never nesseccary, as all transactions occur inside the federation are handled by the "bank" and the banks of other empires. This would be a bit like the original money system used in most modern countries, were the government cannot simply print up all the cash it needs.

This system has been shown throughout history to cause great prosperity when implemented correctly, thats probably why we never here of federation peoples accounts or anything like that, and 99% have enough credit to easily purchase the cheap replicated goods, people are rich enough to live, its when they actually buy some thing large (like a shuttle, boat, archaeologic relics, etc) that they have to count there cash a bit.

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:45 am
by CaptSyf
That is interesting. Also heres a perspective not viewed to often, Star Trek centers around Starfleet, the Military navy of the federation. Now, if you are on A U.S. Navy vessel, let's say the "USS Enterprise", and it's out to sea, then would you be seeing the crew going to buy toys and collectables, no.
They are out at sea, and hundreds of miles from land. They are there for one reason, to serve thier country. They go about thier duties, and defend
the freedoms of the civil world. So now looking at the Starship, it is a mirror
of this same thing. So, for all we know, the Federation is just like the USA, Canada, UK, etc. The only difference is that the government is a more refined version of what the US founding fathers had in mind. So, in at least this view, how can we say what the Star Trek government is truely.

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:23 am
by Numbazix
Very good point. Not much detail has been truly given to the "Everyday" running of the Federation. What we see in the movies and series are the military. There is no civilian perspective. We do know that it still is imperfect in a great many ways from various movie and series plots that point out that very thing. As for it being socialist, communist, a democratic republic, true democracy, that isn't really available. We do know it, whatever IT is, runs pretty well and serves everyone's best interests most of the time.

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:25 am
by Captain_H
Great points made and again I agree with whole heartedly.

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:21 am
by Atlantis
I'd question the Federation being like the USA. The USA is centred on money, capitalism, and to a large extent corruption. The Federation is not.

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:14 am
by CenturionV
Atlantis wrote:I'd question the Federation being like the USA. The USA is centred on money, capitalism, and to a large extent corruption. The Federation is not.
I would agree on both points, but I do think they have a currency, not money per-se, but some other type of medium of exchange. I agree however that corruption probably almost never occurs in the federation.