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WHat would be your perfect Armada game?

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:06 am
by James22b
i'd love to see them bring out one, which didnt have "mission" rather it had an open expanse of space that you could explore yourself with different galaxies and races all the way thru it.
if it was just one big map you could have a sector of it that was yours and you had to defend as well as explore the rest of the galaxy and create allies. it would be great if it was a multiplayer game as this would really add to the excitement of alliances as you could alley urself with someone and bring down huge empires.
also making it more realistic so that to get to a certain part in the universe would take ages even when using warp drive so that it would literally take months to explore the whole map. this would be class so you can build up your empire without someone comming along every 5 seconds as it would take them to find you then send fleets of ships out.
also as you progressed thru the galaxy you could pick up new ship designs and weaponary to add to your own ships and trade star charts with other users for technology.

just thinkin out loud really, what would u like to see in the game?

I agree

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:58 am
by Bombermangba
Star Trek games have always been fight now and not really a civilization game, their first attempt i believe was Birth of The Federation and never was able to play or buy(Wish I could have it though), then New Worlds came out, which was a bad game overall nice ideas but I think done wrongly. I agree because most games are beaten within days and this would really be a game that could build and evolve and not become boring, though the programming for such a game is very thoughful and carefully planned, but yes that would be an ideal game that I'd fall in love with. This is my opinion but others have theirs.

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:05 am
by James22b
BOTF was supposed to be a great game, i didnt play it though, cus i only like games that have nice shiney graphics (ala Armada style) Making games like Armada are very fun for us to play but they are not really Star Trek, Star Trek isnt about war and conquest its about exploration and when u explore u general get into one or two scrapes along the way but it shouldnt be a major player

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:51 am
by fleetadmiralmax
I PLAYED BOTF...yep your write it was good and lets just say when that came out i was obsessive over it i was on my comp for hours starting wars making trade routes etc....back to the point i love your idea you should send in letters to activision and give them the idea 8) (worth a try :) ) they need to start making star trek games im geting tired of modng these games

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:29 pm
by Captain_H
I agree with all of you.

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:57 pm
by Elrond
An idea may be to have competitive players - an AI that would warn the human player that if you go near their dilithium moon one more time, they will send warships after you. Instead of fighting someone else just because they happen to be in your sector, this would allow for three possibilities - neutrality, alliance, or all-out war! Not every mission has to be 'destroy the enemy base'. The missions may be to gather resources in order to explore new worlds and get information about these worlds so that the Federation can expand. If you're the Borg, then your mission is to assimilate. Of course, some missions should still be all-out-war missions, but some don't have to be. In gathering resources, you wouldn't win the map and move on to the next one - instead, the map would expand, allowing you to travel further and discover some friends (or enemies) along the way.
Some secret objects on the map would be cool as well! Finding a pulsar or a neutron star would sure be different. Stars with novae and supernovae would also add to the experience (though those events are rare in the real universe). Solar flares and gravimetric bursts would be cool as well. Planets that move around stars is a must! If it's even possible to consider, it would be nice to have the same scale on everything (if a starship model is 1:10000 scale, then planets should be as well - though that would make them a couple of miles wide on the screen). Oh well, forget that - as long as the planets are bigger than any standard station or ship, that's alright!
To add to the experience of space flight, ships should be able to go into orbit of planets as a way of sending landing parties through transporter or shuttlecraft, depending on the planet's ionosphere interference! A change of views for the screen would also be cool. One view would be just like it is in Armada 2, the second view can be the tactical view they have in Armada 2, but there could be other views. One new view could be the scale-model view of the area you select. The minimap would display a very small part of the map. At that scale, you would see the planets at full size as they would accurately compare to a size far bigger than a ship! The planet would have to direct the camera to be very far away from it so that the planet didn't take up the whole screen. If you adjusted your view to the planet, then maybe you could see cities, mountains, oceans, etc! In that view, a ship traveling at Warp 1 would pass 8 times the diameter of an Earth-sized planet in a second (which is what the speed of light is). At Warp 9, the ship would travel across an entire system with little effort. The user would be able to see the ship travelling slowly (if by slow you mean at warp speed) past planets, asteroid belts, nebulae, etc!
If you got sick of that view or if you station was under attack, you could switch back to normal view to see everything you need to see. In this normal mode, you could zoom in or zoom out on the minimap as after you explored a lot more area, you would have a pretty big minimap!
About the warp speed thing - depending on the ship you use, a ship could go anywhere from a maximum of impule speed to Warp 10 (transwarp). This would however depend on available energy and systems for these functions. Say you took an Excalbur class starship out for a speed cruise at warp 9.9999. After 24 hours (not in real time, but game time, which would be a minutes), your ship would not be able to sustain that speed any longer. This would require a forms of energy - warp plasma energy, amount of matter and antimatter, amount of core dilithium, or amount of deuterium in the impulse engines! New engineering bars would be added to an area on the screen that you could open and close, leaving room for you to see what is going on. Another idea is deployable armor that would match the SOD model of the ship, except with a texture that looks like armor.
Another possibility in the game would be to have the ability to detect a ship's ion trail, indicating a sort of 'footstep' when searching and destroying. Along with that, the ability to shut down your own engines would be an added strategic challenge. If you were, let's say, being pursued by an enemy ship that was following your ion trail, you could shut the engines down and let the ship coast into a nebula or asteroid field that would allow your ship to be hidden from the enemy's view!
And saying that, I believe that it would be cool to be able to smash into an enemy ship or station with your own ships! Of course, the only way you could do that is to disengage a built-in safety protocol and allow the helm manual maneuvering system to be activated. That maneuvering system would be accessed by a panel near the ship's status box. In this maneuvering systems box, you would be able to somehow guide youself into an enemy ship or station at any speed you choose. A separate physics parameter would determine the amount of force that you hit the ship with. The algorithm would compute the damage to both your ship and the enemy's ship. Depending on where your ship hit, your ship would also be able to lose system hardpoints and hull material near the area where your ship was hit.
Weapons fire should also be able to do this now - instead of affecting an entire weapons array, you could affect just one hardpoint. A separate menu that you could pull up or pull down could show a listing of the status of each hardpoint on the ship or station!!!
And last but not least, free starship separation! This would be cool because now you would not have to have just one ship that separates, but any ship you choose can separate into what you want it to. Also, a Fusion Cube would be able to disassemble into 8 separate cubes, or could even eject just one to six cubes (which means that you could have a fusion cube with 2 to 7 cubes)! Actually: one last thing: adding as many special energy bars as you want to a ship (actually, five would do)!

Sounds like you guys have a lot of great ideas! I hope a lot of these become reality on the game (if not in real life someday - eh! :lol: )!

Master of Orion3

Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 pm
by Warmaster_Rob
You guys really need to look around more there is a game called 'Master of Orion 3' that is practically everything your looking for. (though it isnt star trek).

You choose a race (you can customise the abilities of this race too if you wish), choose the size and shape of the galaxy, choose how many major races will be around, anywhere from 1-16 others (there are many many races but most are just non playable and you meet them along the way with little influence on you, the major ones you interact with). You begin on 1 planet and have to design, build and comission starships orbital defenses and system defense ships. you reseach technology like different kinds of weapons shields armour and engines as well as different social structures and civilian issues. you can explore the galaxy as you see fit via a 'galactic screen' that you can z in or out, rotate horizontally clockwise or anitclock or spin over again clock or ac. you can travel via warp jump points and jump lanes or you can travel 'off road' vai any desired route (though jump travel is usually faster). double clicking on a star takes you into a 'system creen' where you view the planets in their orbits and get to view their statistics. double click a planet takes you into the 'planetary screen' here you deal with things like taxes, military and planetary construction projects and get to choose how and where on the planets surface things are built, like where an agricultural centre will be built or where an industrail park is placed etc.

There are also other races out in the galaxy that you will eventually meet. you can make trade agrrements with them, sign Non agression pacts trade intelligence wage war against or form alliances and wage war with them. you can also train spies and use them to infiltrate the other races, assasssinating their leaders stealling technology sabotaging their warships etc.
There is always a 'galactic senate' comprised of some or all of the races near the centre of the galaxy, if you dont start the game as part of the senate you can be voted in, you can also be voted out. here races deal on a regular basis with senate laws passed that can effect entire empires (usually for the best) but it can also be a place where corruption can cause whole alliances to wage war against a single empire so be warned.
all this occurs via a 'turn based' system that allows you to set build projects etc as you want them to be then hit the turn button and it runs as you wish, though not always exactly how youd like it which makes it like real life bueracracy. however combat occurs in REAL TIME.
you can fly starships as individuals or you can form them into fleets consisting of up to 18 vessels. (in any 1 combat 10 such fleets can take part on both sides, ie 20 fleets in a battle) sizes of vessels can vary from cutters and corvettes to titans and leviathans. and you can change the view of the combat as with the galactic screen, (you can also control combat).
There is also the ability to build armies of troops and tanks, fliers and armour suits (like in the matrix). you can use these to protect and patrol your own planets and you can also carry them with your fleets to a planet and fight ground combat as well. (in ground combat you pick a strategy to be used and howmany of the troops to land then watch the battle unfold while you recieve voice reports from the commanders of how the battle is progressing, "our assualt was too much for them to handle general", "the planet is ours i'm sure you'll be rewarded for your efforts here general")

To play a game from start to finish takes weeks. i am in the middle of a game right now, i have been playing it for 10 days now as humans and i have only met half the races in the galaxy. though i have stolen a 'Dark Energy Bean Cannon' from a very advanced neighbour of mine, hehehe

There is so much that can be said about this game but i'l leave it for you to find out as this post is long enough already

Have fun


Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:20 am
by James22b
there are some very intelligent people on this board, why dont they build this game in there spare time, i doubt anyone could do anything if it was distributed for free.

i dont begin to even understand how to build games but does it just take finding/designing a game engine to build the game around?

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:25 pm
by Elrond
The Master of Orion 3 sounds like a cool game - I'm going to buy it just to see this! No doubt that a game could be very complicated if they provided like two DVD's worth of material! The ideas for a new Armada game sound like they would need a pretty hype machine to function! I have a 2.8GHz HT processor and 1024MB of 400 MHz ram on my laptop, but I don't even know if that would be enough to encompass the scale of something as complicated as I previously described. But, I guess a trend toward more complicated games is progress. When I first got my copy of Armada I, I thought I would have trouble learning how to use the interface, but it reminded me much of Starcraft, except that this game was moddable. Armada II was much more moddable yet, since the odf files were placed in a separate group of folders that made modding much less complicated.
I guess the more complicated the game is, the more organized the folder system for modding the game will be! The only thing in Armada II that I would need to play a really awesome game would be the ability to add new classLabels so that creating an explosion with a new ship that comes out would be possible (I read this on a forum about making an explosion that would create a Borg sphere from the destruction of a Borg cube). It's ideas like that that can't quite become possibility in Armada 2 without illegally editting the sourcecode! I saw someone do that very thing before and the effect was quite amazing, especially since the sourcecode hasn't been released yet!!!
I just got a job two months ago using 3D modelling to create new objects for an interface for a new internet tool that is coming out soon. I must say that I already enjoy this work because I can use it when I come home to modify and create new ships and special weapons! Someday perhaps games like Armada will be played in sort of mini-games that play in an applet in Internet Explorer!!! Talk about how many ideas I have about that - this would make my prior post of ideas on the new Armada game look small!
Warmaster_Bob, I will have to go ahead and try Master of Orion 3 so I can see how far these types of games have come. Is that game moddable? :lol:

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:24 pm
by Warmaster_Rob
very much so,

the games crators 'quicksilver' grrrrrr! designed the game so all files could be opened using MS excel and appear in spreadsheet format. its so simple any 2 bit monkey could mod it so i'm sure a wise elf like yourself would have no trouble. there are a few scattered websites around that already have mods n such. the downside is that once it was released QS abandoned it and never promoted the game so many of these sites are cold and damp with very little life. is the best ive found so far, i'm on the board as warcaster. there are a fair few screenys over there for you to check out too.

AS you may have guessed MoO3 is the 3rd of a series. the first is centred around...well no, i'l let you find it out for yourself. its all writen in novel form in the manual.

Lets just say it has been many thousands of years since the 2nd game and the premise of the 3rd and there is an old familiar face rising at the galactic core :twisted:

if the ST game was designed along the lines of MoO3 then it wouldnt take a very powerful comp. i personally have a 1.6GHZ with 125M DDR Ram and 8GB hard drive and i have A1, a faulty A2, Elite force, MoO3, and a whole bunch load of others and they all run top notch. :)
give us a shout if ya want anymore info.

have fun

Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:09 pm
by whohaw15
James22b they had a game coming out like that called "Dune Generations" but the company went bankrupt just two months from release so we maybe be screwed for that game unless some other compnay bought it since it was complete and if anyone knows for sure please let me know.

I just bought MOO3

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:27 pm
by Bombermangba
I LOVE IT! it's exactly what I was looking for though, I wish it was star trek based but it still works

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:12 am
by Warmaster_Rob
MoO3 is truely an awsome game, it encompasses every facet of empire control and the graphics aint bad either. anyone who can figure out how to mod this baby to st sw b5 or any of the others sci fi shows please make yourself known and head over to the guardian website it would be amazing to have this in trek mode :)

bombermangba who have you begun as? and how are you getting on with your empire (i love gaming reports see, go to the smart ai thread at guardian to read some of mine)

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:09 pm
by jazznaz898
Hey maybe the star trek gaming community should approch Activision, Paramount, or wateva, and make a request for this game... If there is enough people backing the idea, the company will get excited, and say, "Hey, maybe we can make up for armada 2's dodgy-ness!", by developing and releasing this multi-race, super dooper huge game, with endless exploration and tones of gameplay... The best thing is that it will backed by the community, which will be asked questions as to what they would prefer, and everytime they release a new episode of star-trek (IF they do) they can add races, planet, systems, or wat eva to the game. It has great potential

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:44 pm
by Elrond
One thing I would like to see for a new Armada-ish game (since Armada III may never be) would concern the different races in the game. In Armada II, it seemed that Species 8472 was an underdog because it lacked the amount of ships and features the other races did. If I was going to see a new Armada game, I would like to see every race used to their potentials! I know that one thing that is definitely lacking is the number of people who play the game as Species 8472. Armada II may as well have had the Dominion as an original race. Also, the Ferengi should have a more dominant presence in the next game. Species 8472 should have a special ship, like the Borg, the Federation, Klingons, Cardassians, and Romulans do, but they didn't! Also, they didn't have a dreadnought - well, no race did in unmodded Armada II. New ship classes would have to be dreadnought, fighter, and spy ship (the Romulans have the scout which has a spy aboard, but no other race really has a spy).
Future Tense will and Fleet Ops have these features - like the federation deep space probe on Fleet Ops. The ability for ships to orbit planets would be a nice addition. In that same way, it would be cool if ships could use a planet's or a star's gravity well to initiate a slingshot effect without having to toggle a special weapon. Better physics in the next Armada game (if there will ever be one) would be a great idea. The game would be so much neater if there was gravity, inertia, and even collisions between objects. Flying into an asteroid field should not just make a ship fly around in circles, it should be able to destroy or damage a ship. Along with that, the amount of damage done to a ship would not just depend on the shield and hull strength of the ship, but also the size of the ship. Physics stuff like mass, force, surface area, volume, gravity, mass-energy relationship, inertia, temperature, and electromagnetics would be good for a future game. For instance, I programmed a model of the solar system in C++ and Java which you can move the planets wherever you want them and the gravitational effects will change depending on where everything is! I think that a multi-million dollar game would be able to do this physics stuff.
Ideas from Master of Orion 3 would be good to be able to use in another Star Trek game. Also, a ship view would be a good interface to add to the game - seeing phasers and torpedoes hitting your ship through the bridge view would be quite spectacular - that view could be toggled on and off. I figure that since games are going to DVD and HD-DVD in the future that it would be relatively feasible to do a lot of these things without worrying about space limitations. The only limitations there would be is in your computer's CPU, memory, graphics performance and memory, display type, and learning curve of the game (which would be higher than for Armada II).
The next Armada game, if it's ever a reality, should be able to accept errors that Armada II crashed over - like errors in odf files. It could correct those errors by displaying a warning message at the top left of the screen like, "Ship cannot be built because of insufficient or invalid design information." It would be a creative message like that, instead of "Send Error Report." The same could go for weapons on a ship that have invalid statements or references in the odf file - the game could display a warning, saying, "Unable to fire a weapon on this craft - system offline." A tooltip could even be accessed to tell you which file was in error! That would be sweet if they could do that!
The next game should be moddable as well because I know of some games that were moddable at first and then for the sequel game, they eliminated that ability. Never try to fix a good thing - just make it better! Armada III should be more moddable than Armada II, but I'm certain that it would take a lot more modding to change the next game, since everything will be displayed at a much higher resolution. My current PC is not even great at running Armada II, so I don't think it would ever run the next game, but my laptop would - 3.4GHz and tons of dual-channel DDR2 ram!
Well, more ideas likely to come!