What can be done to save Shattered Frontiers?

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What can be done to save Shattered Frontiers?

Post by icewolf132 »

First of all: there will be absolutly NO flaming here, if there is even a hint of a spark I will make sure this is closed AND deleted faster than you can say "what the heck?".

People, some time ago I said that we were walking on thin ice, well the ice has cracked. I do NOT want to see this story die before it's time, so I beg everyone to come here and voice their opinions on how we can save the story. And be serious about it! the story is so close to being shot down that it's not funny, this is NOT the time to be childish or fight.

What we need to do is give the plot more time to grow and evolve into the template we need before the journy begins, this is what several people stated and I agree with them fully.

We all need to agree on what the basic stuff in the story will be like, such as the plot and history, and stick with it; the lack of this is what cause the Legacy story to shut down.

Also, we need obey Elrond, Cecil, and the other Admins a lot beter than we have been, they are NOT here to ruin things, they want to see this story fly as badly as we all do. I must also remind you that they have an iron foot, when they put it down, it stays down. They are doing their job of keeping the peace in the forum, and so far they have done their best to do that.
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Post by Corbomite_Ray »

Can someone sum up for me exactly what went down, because I wasn't here to see the fighting actually break out. I saw that Majestic was leaving and posted a few intentionally non-inflammatory thoughts (I couldn't really feel angry about it as much as simply regretful, because I had no one but myself to be angry at about it, and I hate getting angry at myself) but I wasn't around to see the place get shut down etc.
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Post by Harrie »

The major problem we had with SF was that if got off on the wrong foot. No offense to anyone but we wanted an RPG and began a fanfiction. Later on someone could go through and compile the rpg into a fanfiction just for shits and grins.

for this to work it MUST have the same or a similar set up to what we started with budget cuts. We should all realize this by now.

I'm done.
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Post by Corbomite_Ray »

There were a few primary problems.
JPKTrekker and I have done a small amount of talking about actual RPG positions. For example, he wants me to manage and maintain continuity and enforce adherence to the basic storyline, but largely (aside from writing contributions here and there) let other people come up with side-stories and write dialogue and basically expand their own characters. I think this format would work a lot better, because something that never really got nailed down that was the real clincher was how individuals would contribute to the RPG while it was in progress. Obviously we had some conflicting views, and to say the least, some bad things happened as a result of not getting that established.

What do you think?
PM I sent to icewolf132 less than twenty minutes ago.

Another problem was that the format for the RPG was never laid down. I decided to try a more narrative form, and while it seemed to work for people, after it was finished (too late, really) suddenly people had a problem with it. I'm not sure if it was a slow-dawning realization or that they didn't understand the direction that JPKTrekker and I were trying to go in with regards to future episodes or didn't catch that or what, but what went down went down, and we might as well put the conflicts behind us because this is a topic to save the RPG, not to finish killing it. Yes, that goes for me, too.

And Elrond, I really hope you don't start piling the blame on yourself, because you had little or nothing to do with this. Just prior sufficient warning not to take it upon yourself, because it was everyone's fault, and maybe mine most of all those. I will admit that I had tensions with a couple of the people involved in the RPG from other things, and I'm not going to name names or dwell on that or fire accusations or complain about "what could have been", but those might have contributed to adding fuel to the fire, and flamewar is a whole lotta fire. There's a reason that most people consider the usage of fire to win wars immoral and wrong, after all. Just look at napalm. So we don't need any (more) lobbing of our napalm hand grenades. We just need to sit down and calmly discuss this and work it out.

Passionate opinions not prohibited, as long as it isn't railing against people.

^^^ Or at least until someone else says otherwise.
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Post by cecilzero1 »

well for starters we need to figure out a way for everyone to join in and have fun

what i wanted was a summery of the episode the begining of it and let the member go from there and to have certian requirements met during each episode and a max of 500 words and only can post 2 times a day for that episode
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Post by Elrond »

I agree. Do you know what was a perfect RPG before it fell? Legacy. Legacy's first three episodes were a total success in my honest opinion. What happened afterwards and during the transition to the next two episodes destroyed it.

Sometimes, people don't consider the possibility of doing the same thing twice, except the second time, doing it so that it does work.

The real problem we do have is the format. We must lay that down somehow, as Corbomite said. I haven't been very enthusiastic about anything lately - I've been downright disgruntled at times with everything. I assure you I am not that way anymore. I think I will be able to write for the new storyline should it go ahead and go.

I'm not sure what types of formats there really are for writing RPGs. Apparently, there's narrative, and that's all I know so far. LOL. Believe me, at my school, the English and Literature classes I took didn't engrave that in my head for me to remember. That was a long long time ago and I can't remember a thing these-a-days about that - all I remember is grammar and usage and I think I use those skills quite well. It's the idea of making a storyline:

1. Interesting
2. Not confusing (whatever is the opposite of confusing)
3. Something that everyone can participate in if they wish
4. Have a plausible plot (one in which it makes the reader think that the good guys may not win this time around)
5. Have a format that is recognizable and followed by all readers and writers
6. Something that can be followed
7. Something in which the rules are followed as closely as possible
8. Organized well
9. That has a plan that doesn't take weeks and weeks to implement for each episode.
10. Something that has limits
11. Something where no one will blame themselves if it fails, which we always realize can happen and HAS happened - and it has in the case, happened twice. The last time was last month. But this time, the story was re-evaluated before it ever really began, and for good reason.
12. Something that doesn't take away from the other threads such as modding, etc. We still have to partake in the modding part as well, because I know that Armada isn't dead and won't be so long as we make every effort to keep creating or helping to create mods. And some people need help in the modding forums - that's what earns one a great deal of satisfaction and respect for helping someone with their mod.

I make sure that all my PM's that I get are answered, and I'll still be around somehow for the storyline and I'm available usually everyday to help someone and give advice to people who need it.

And one other thing, I had really gotta quit drinkin'. But of course if I did, I wouldn't be able to come up with the ideas the storyline needs to succeed. :wink:

Over the last two months, the members here have gone off-topic easily, and that includes me - I'll admit it. But everyone of us has had that problem at least once.

For another last word for this post, there will be problems, God knows there will be. Remember, if you learn anything from me, it's not the problem, it's how you deal with the problem - because it is inevitable that a problem will arise. It can and has and always will happen to each and every one of us. The new rules for the RPG greatly improved the planning aspect of the storyboard, but the planning did not follow through for the eventual release of new episodes. It's hard to get it all to come together - every one of us knows that.

When a problem does occur, like the RPG section being closed, everyone must realize that the problem will resolve itself with the members and/or administrators involved. I had tried to do everything I could, and when all of my options were exhausted at the time, I panicked and considered myself as the problem, when in reality, as Corbomite said, we all both have something to do with it and nothing to do with it, as we are all human and that kind of stuff is gonna happen whether we all like it or not. Well, I considered and thought a lot on things here and for a long time considered myself the problem with it and thus, I simply retired as Flag Officer on the Enterprise and had my character take a desk job at Starfleet Headquarters. Perhaps I was premature in this decision. I believe that the Enterprise and the Midway will be a big part of the storyline and no doubt will both be back to normal once this entire situation is resolved, which may take either a day, or could take much longer. It is my belief that we may be discussing this issue long after this thread's creation. These same questions will perplex many and intimidate many over an amount of time.

There may one day be a time where the RPG would die, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the RPG comes tumbling down, but that is not this day. This day we make it better! By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you stand, men and women of AFC!

Thus, the problem will be solved sometime along the road of this story. In a way, the story of how the RPG went would be a great storyline in itself! LOL. It's a story of how each of us went through this and how we dealt with it AND eventually beat the problem and saved the RPG from a second darkness. :)

well for starters we need to figure out a way for everyone to join in and have fun

what i wanted was a summery of the episode the begining of it and let the member go from there and to have certian requirements met during each episode and a max of 500 words and only can post 2 times a day for that episode
Yes. Agreed. This is a good maximum limitation for an episode and the rule for people posting two times daily at max for one episode is a great limitation to use to begin with!


I appreciate your inputs into this discussion. It will most likely be a most necessary and paramount step in the policy of RPG development for a long time to come. :)


w00t! 2800 posts! lol Trekker's catching up very quickly though. :D
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Post by Corbomite_Ray »

All right, here's my idea.

Stick with my Episode I and leave that as is; if Majestic and company still want out, no Midway. If they want back in, Midway is present.

For all succeeding episodes, anybody can write additions, which will be regulated. My suggestion for this would be to, if possible, give all top members of the RPG who are involved with keeping the storyline intact, characters in character, avoiding complete insanity like the Burning Legion attacking or people using lightsabers in a battle for control of a can of root beer, and such, moderating powers for those forums only, with caution that misuse or abuse of these moderating powers will get that person's privileges revoked and maybe even have temp bans or at least suspensions from the RPG in order. By top people (naming those who aren't admins already) I would mean people who have been given assignments to keep a certain something in order, which would be to the extent of my knowledge currently JPKTrekker and myself, though if Majestic comes back I think he would also be a shoo-in.

This means, in effect, that the primary storyline adheres to what was agreed, which is my most recently edited and refitted storyline that I have posted numerous times, which does incorporate many elements suggested and agreed upon by other people (including a few that I would do a different way myself if it was my choice), but side-stories, dialogue, and character development, which is what I think most people would define as the main explicit subject matter of Star Trek, would be given over to the people to develop as they see fit.

This means:

I. Active characters (those who have not been missing and lacking explanation for absence for over two weeks time) cannot be killed off without the user RPing them's consent.

II. Major and named NPC characters may not be killed off by anyone who is not the C.O. or higher of the ship that they serve on without those peoples' permission.

III. Important property and starships belonging to users in the RPG may not be destroyed without permission from the person who RPs as their possessor.

IV. Major deviations from the set storyline must be submitted to the moderators of the RPG forums for discussion and either approval or rejection.

V. Major developments of a character RPed by another user must be approved by that user first.

VI. Moderators may not abuse their power to drive the story in a specific direction that is not demanded by the set storyline, i.e. deleting, editing (aside from cleaning up spelling and grammar), or ordering people to edit posts to change them where it is not warranted by other regulations or agreed upon by consensus of the moderators of the RPG forum.

VII. Additions, except where explicitly authorized by a consensus of the moderators of the RPG forum, must be within 500 words or less.

VIII. Breaches of the above may be punishable at the discretion of the administrator(s), but not the moderators.

IX. Additions to an open episode of the RPG may be made by anybody who is RPing a character in it that has been given a position by an X.O. or higher of one of the ships.

X. The storyline is subject to a review being called upon it as optional, though only one review may be called per week. When a review is called, the moderators of the RPG forum will discuss any possible changes or revisions to it and if agreed upon by consensus or overwhelming majority, changes will be made. Appeals by the dissenting party or parties may be subject to sustainment or rejection by an administrator.

XI. The moderators of the RPG forum are entitled to being able to call meetings, the medium of which is to be agreed upon by consensus.

XII. Under no circumstances are people in this RPG allowed to not have fun. Violations of this will result in an immediate frowning.
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Post by JPKTrekker »

I have no intention of making a long speech at the moment. I never was good at those. However, I am going to say that what the R.P.G. needs is a more hands-on approach. From what I have seen, no offense meant, the admins in charge of the R.P.G. section have done their best to keep the threads there in line. But I feel that it would be better if there was one person dedicated just to deeling with the R.P.G. (Cecil and Elrond manage several sections of the site and not just the R.P.G.).

It might also help if our organization of the R.P.G. was less diplomatic. We need a clear command structure. The members who handle the R.P.G. stuff should have their jobs defined (for behind the scenes stuff). That way, we will know who is supposed to do what.

Of course, I am not trying to step on anyone's toes, and that is all just my honest opinion.
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Post by fetalmonkey »

this all would be so easily fixed if we could just read a story in 1 thread and play as our characters
the only bad thing about this would be the syory witers because we would have to find a way to get over the fact that these are the creators of the story and it is thier story but our rpg

anyhow i just want to have fun with the rest of you why cant it be like the old days when we all were on the legacy and hope

maybe thats the problem we have to many ships and less and less crew so we bicker between the others
maybe we should go back to the old times where it was just for fun and the stories went on from scratch of the tops of our head if you notice we didnt start to have problems until the palegic and other ships were added
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Post by JPKTrekker »

fetalmonkey wrote:this all would be so easily fixed if we could just read a story in 1 thread and play as our characters
the only bad thing about this would be the syory witers because we would have to find a way to get over the fact that these are the creators of the story and it is thier story but our rpg

anyhow i just want to have fun with the rest of you why cant it be like the old days when we all were on the legacy and hope

maybe thats the problem we have to many ships and less and less crew so we bicker between the others
maybe we should go back to the old times where it was just for fun and the stories went on from scratch of the tops of our head if you notice we didnt start to have problems until the palegic and other ships were added
You have a point. Perhaps it would be wise if we only used one ship for the story line (I think that would be closer to Star Trek canon as all series I recall centered on only one ship).
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Post by Corbomite_Ray »

If we were to start over completely fresh and have everything unscripted and unplanned, just things mapped out (planets and timeframe and information about the particular era especially in terms of technology and general attitude of the times) so that we aren't making things up (umm...yeah, so my starship is under attack, but suddenly my friends from the 21st dimension come and use their sonic temporal nuclear rays to destroy all who oppose me to make me the supreme ruler of the universe!), I would personally like to lead an effort to convert the Shattered Frontiers storyline into a fan-created "Virtual Voyager"-type fantasy series project.

If we were to start from scratch in this manner, my suggestion would be to have the series set on board the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-J.
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Post by JPKTrekker »

Corbomite_Ray wrote:If we were to start over completely fresh and have everything unscripted and unplanned, just things mapped out (planets and timeframe and information about the particular era especially in terms of technology and general attitude of the times) so that we aren't making things up (umm...yeah, so my starship is under attack, but suddenly my friends from the 21st dimension come and use their sonic temporal nuclear rays to destroy all who oppose me to make me the supreme ruler of the universe!), I would personally like to lead an effort to convert the Shattered Frontiers storyline into a fan-created "Virtual Voyager"-type fantasy series project.

If we were to start from scratch in this manner, my suggestion would be to have the series set on board the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-J.
Sounds like a good read. However, I thought we were discussing how we were going to save Shattered Frontiers. Though, the starting from scratch and only using one ship don't sound like bad ideas to me. I think that it might be best if we only had the one hero ship to worry about. I feel that would cause a whole lot less confusion.
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Post by Corbomite_Ray »

So we have something. Save Shattered Frontiers by making it a separate side project, and save the RPG concept by starting anew and improvising as we go like in a "real" RPG game.
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Post by Elrond »

Perhaps. I've said everything I could towards it. We may need to lean in another direction completely.
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Post by Elrond »

Also, we won't be needing any more moderators at the time being. But the other suggestions are possible. lol


Ok. I have more to add now. For those who read my post and Cecil's post, we need limitations. 2 posts in an episode per day, no more. 500-600 words for an episode (depending on if there are screenshots or not).

We must go ahead and keep Frontiers and see how this works out.

But we go ahead by keeping the rules we do have so far and expand into some rules that will involve the limitations for episodes, how much is to be opened for each episode, etc.
Last edited by Elrond on Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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