Future Tense II for Armada II?

The Federation of the future is about to embark on a temporal battle of survival

Moderators: MrVulcan, thunderchero

Post Reply
Phantom
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 1695
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 2:00 am

Future Tense II for Armada II?

Post by Phantom » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:25 pm

Okay, Been giving it some though,

There ARE some Advantages with making Future Tense II for Armada II based on recent non-illegal edits (IE rewriting EXE or what not) that have sorta changed my opinon on the rushed expansion of Armada 1 that well, If I thought this a couple of years ago I'd shot myself, but is there a demand for Star Trek Future Tense II: The Orion Invasion to be released onto Star Trek Armada II?


Star Trek Future Tense will release on Star Trek Armada regardless.



For me to really give Armada 2 a chance I want to know a few things:


- Can the shitty gameplay (IE 3D depth, GUI, et au) be modded?
- Can the physics and tooltips be edited to a threat rated system
- Can I remove Invincible Fusion from the Borg lol - that was a joke


lol. A2 isn't that bad. It just has a very 'rushed' feel. I tried to play Fleet Ops (Cecil/Stephen will hit the roof to here that I played A2!) and it werent 'that' bad. Moving shuttle pods in starbases though cool, drained my CPU resources, though I will say, the nebulas are excellent and I'm very jealous, was totally blown away with em.

I have what about 1 month of A2 modding experience compared to 6 years of Armada 1 modding experience so I'm not gonna know the ins and outs. what I DO know is that the code Future Tense uses with the help of discovering the source code Armada used in development that Achilles and Cecil uncovered to allow us to make use of unused classlabels without editing the ODFs are not in Armada II. Which means both Future Tense II's will be different in game play anyway



IF I undoubtably decide that yeah okay we'll go A2 with Future Tense II aswell as A1, I'd need input. I havent touched A2 for about 3 years, my guess is that theres been developments. I have heard all about the Fleet Ops patch that puts extensions in the EXE or links to other files which link to the EXE that has sparked lots of contraversy about releasing n stuff. Im not interested in that stuff at all. Like Future Tense, Future Tense II will not edit or rewrite the EXE file.

I havent looked extensivly because I dont have time to at the moment with me in and out of hospital every other week, working real life, then modding Future Tense and animating up Legacy of the Federation's start up set, can Aramda 2 modders please list modding advancements?


Bottom line is is Future Tense worthy enough to hit Armada 2. Future Tense II though in pre-development at this stage will undoubtable rival Fleet Operations as Fleet Ops is the 'mother of all mods' mod of Armada 2 it seems and based on people's opinions on Future Tense, this is the 'mother of all mods' mod for Armada 1. So I don't want mass arguments, comparisons et au between the two as thats stupid but I will reliterate that Future Tense II will not rewrite the EXE.



Please list differences between Armada 1 and Armada 2 below and the Future Tense team (mainly me) will consider it upon the inital Future Tense II meeting to be held in April.

If it goes to Armada II, then an Armada II team and as well as an Armada I team will be needed so please also use this thread to apply should you wish...



At this point its not a guarentee, just market research so to speak to see if theres demand for Future Tense II to arrive on both Games....



Ad'
Image

User avatar
MrVulcan
Site Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Site  Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:00 am
Location: TO CA

Post by MrVulcan » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:53 pm

Perhaps people are in a state of disbelief cause I don't see anyone posting :P

Phantom and I have already discussed this subject briefly over msn, but just to get the discussion going, I'll post my thoughts on the matter.

My experience with A2 is very limited, but from what what I've been able to observe, modding Armada II does have certain appeal.

From the looks of it, the A2 gui is as moddable, or even more so, as the gui in A1. I've only briefly looked at the code, but the gui elements are the same. Apparently, there are also bits there to define screen resolution so that the gui can look good at any resolution. Not sure about this one though...

A2 has a better graphics engine for us to work with. The ability to have realistic-looking glows on our models is something of a struggle with A1. Also, not sure if hull damage can be applied with the current methods; possibly, the texture replacement can be used for this purpose (similar to borg assimilation textures). Will have to try this to be sure.

The obvious things like additional resources, built-in warp and fusion/separation capability are also pretty interesting. With larger maps and a bit more thought, these can be used to enchance gameplay.

Lack of interesting class labels is certainly something that will be an obstacle, as will the lack of support for modular stations.

In any case, I'd support the project regardless of the decision. One problem with maintaining two separate projects though is having enough staff to work on both at once, heheh. But this is obviously something that'll be considered when the times comes.

Now, everyone, please share your thoughts.

User avatar
rodglas
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Hamilton, ON Canada (NORPAC)
Contact:

Post by rodglas » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:27 pm

On one hand I'd say stick with what you know on this one but on the other hand it would be good to see FT join the ranks of A2 modding.

Basically all I'd have to say on the subject is "why not?"
If its what you want to do, then go for it.



The recent Patch Project (the one without the illegal bits) does add modular stations amongst other features to A2 so it gives some of the funtionality of A1 back.

In any case, good luck and I look forward to playing FT on A1 or A2

Rod

User avatar
S618-18741
Cadet 4th Year
Cadet 4th Year
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:00 am

Post by S618-18741 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:40 am

I think it would be a good idea to check out the patch project features here:

Patch Project Features

Now that they have removed all the code that messed with the exe and dlls it might be a good place to start, for instance being able to build hero ships using the new maxbuildablenumber command, modular stations and the replace weapon that can be used instead of the saucer seperator, to refit ships, or to launch fighters. And I think there's a new version coming out soon with even more features.

Still I agree with MrVulcan it depends on whether there are going to be enough class labels in A2 to get the feel you want.

User avatar
doci7
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:00 am

Post by doci7 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:48 am

I don't have any useful knowledge to contribute- I'd just like to say (and I think most will agree with me) that if you go A2, you might want to make all of your units like 2 or three times bigger than their respective classes currently in the game (what I always hated about the game was
1. The smallness of all the units
2. The expendability of all units except the fusion-cubes
3. The lack of shininess (the ships used to glisten in the sun as they maneuvered in Armada I!)
4. The stupid 'damage' sparks that would appear if any one of the systems of a ship were damaged by even 1% and seemingly never go away)

I know that doesn't help any, but hopefully I at least reinforced the feelings of contempt that anyone else had towards the game. I'll support your decision if you do release the mod for A2, but personally since you seem to have already figured out how to add races and make ships warp-capable in A1, I can't really see any significant point to dedicating significant time and effort to making the mod dual-platform. As Phantom said, it's not about competing with those other mods like Fleet Ops, so why even bother about using the same platform? Future Tense has nothing to prove! (Not even that it can be flexible).

User avatar
MrVulcan
Site Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Site  Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:00 am
Location: TO CA

Post by MrVulcan » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:41 pm

doci7,
You bring up some important points and I agree with most of what you say.

I agree that units in A2 look pretty small, but the scale can be easily changed. The main concern will be with ensuring that ships are properly scaled with respect to one another. The limitation on ship size will then be on how pathfinding handles oversized ships. I suppose the limit will be the size of the fusion cube. The prospect of having regular borg cubes as large as the fusion cube does sound appealing :)

Points 2 and 4 are related. It is true that individual ships in A2 are worthless as they blow up after only a few hits. Worse yet, if a ship looses its engines during a battle, it'll take forever for it to repair. Sometimes it’s less trouble to just leave it there for the enemy to blow it up at their next pass. Both of these are easily corrected through some careful rebalancing.

I'm not really a fan of the hull reflections and shines in A1, partly because I think they are a bit too much. But, it should be worth a try to see how something less severe will look. As far as I know, A2 supports the same texture properties as A1 does.

Modding for A2 has some advantages that I've discussed previously and giving it a try shouldn't be a bad idea. The most serious problems at the moment are that A2 doesn't support the same class labels as A1 (will make it difficult to make some things work like modular stations and certain special weapons) and that managing two mods as the same time will require a fairly large modding team, something not easily done nowadays.

User avatar
doci7
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:00 am

Post by doci7 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:30 pm

Yeah, making a cube the size of a fusion cube is an excellent idea, as in effect the f-cube is ultimately a more true-to-life version of the cube than the cube is (ironically). You're right about the shines being slightly out of place (Star Trek ships aren't made out of polished chrome as far as I know); I just thought they looked nice. I won't argue with your case for the advantages, but it almost seems like for this to work, the team is going to have to pick one game or the other, as the differences between the two, and moreover the differing reasons why each is appealing, make it sound almost impossible to make two versions of the same entity, ya know?

uss_shanker

Phantom

Post by uss_shanker » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:49 am

hey phantom dont bother armada 2 its apsloutly sh1t there are some levels that keep crashing etc i think future tense 2 will suit better for armada 1

User avatar
Claydo
Cadet 2nd Year
Cadet 2nd Year
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 2:00 am

Post by Claydo » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:26 pm

hi all A2 2.5 (legal unofficial) does allow full mvam (intergration and seperation) also build limits and modular stations

also the ships with lightmaps can be set so that they refelect light from the background (and i think nebulas and stars) but not as much as A1 (so it shows the textures better)

the missing class lables cud be asked for the nxt patch and the ships scale/strengths can be altered

bout the gui's they are moddable but i'm not sure if you can have the buttons as they appear in FT1 (in a circle or around an area) i think there stuck in bars

also A2 allows more races than a1

User avatar
Claydo
Cadet 2nd Year
Cadet 2nd Year
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 2:00 am

Post by Claydo » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:21 am

yh but wont FT2 need to have at least 7 (the 6 from FT1 and the Orions)

Phantom
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 1695
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 2:00 am

Post by Phantom » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:15 am

FT will have 5 races for each of the 5 time frames ;)

.: 25 races ;)
Image

User avatar
doci7
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:00 am

Post by doci7 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:17 pm

Yeah, wouldn't it be great to play as the 22nd Century Romulans against the 25th Century Orion with the help of some early 24th Feds and 23rd Klingons? Strange, but interesting. I have to admit, though, I'd still almost pick more playable races over the option of different time frames to play as. The 'Big Four' tendency of Star Trek games gets somewhat lackluster after enough games; that's why I commended A2 and Dominion Wars for their inclusion of others (if little else in either case). That is also one of the things that makes FT awesome, and thus I was mildly disappointed to see the tally of races go from 6 to 5. I still like the timeframe thing though and am confident that the FT team can do a better job of it than Legacy seems to have (haven't played the campaign myself, but haven't heard anything positive about it).

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest