Could anyone pick out continuality mistakes in Enterprise?

The place where serious discussions can take place.

Moderators: MrVulcan, thunderchero

Atlantis
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Stoke, UK
Contact:

Post by Atlantis » Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:53 pm

This is a reply to an older post, but still.
Cpt_Geddes wrote:wingsabre, there is no evidence that the romulans don't have warp drive.
Yes it was, the Romulan BoP didnt have it, they had something similar which let them travel large distances (cant remember the details at the moment, but they only got decent warp capability when they traded with the Klingons. It's thought that before that, they had warpish-capable carriers, which would carry the BoPs into the battlefield.
Cpt_Geddes wrote:how did they get that far from vulcan without warp
Sleeper ships....

Cpt_Geddes
Cadet 4th Year
Cadet 4th Year
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Some where in the universe

Post by Cpt_Geddes » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:05 am

If they used sleeper ships, it would take many thousands of years, if not millions, to travel from vulcan to romulus.

The romulan BoP would be a very ineffective combat ship without warp. It doesn't make sense that there would be carriers, unseen in cannon, with warp but the combat vessel doesn't have warp. When the klingons traded with the romulans I beleive the romulans wanted the klingon designs, as the BoP was easily defeated and so they needed new more powerful and sturdier warships.[/quote]

Atlantis
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Stoke, UK
Contact:

Post by Atlantis » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:12 am

Right, put it this way then. WE dont have sleeper ships yet, but we have ion drives, which can travel up to 1/4 of lightspeed. By the time we get sleeperships, i reckon we'll've doubled that, to 1/2. So if we use that as example speed.
Romulus isnt that far away from Vulcan, say 120ly, thats 240 years + 40 for acceleration/deceleration making 280 yearsminimum. It's a long time, but not thousands or millions. Remember this happened a few thou years ago, so it is kinda feasible.

"Sleeper ship" means the people sleep, not the ship :P:D

The Romulan BoP ISNT a combat ship, it's an assault ship, for against outpost and other unarmed things. It was its uselessness in combat which made the Romulans turn to the Klingons for help.

User avatar
wingsabre
Cadet 3rd Year
Cadet 3rd Year
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:00 am

Post by wingsabre » Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:31 am

"Balance of Terror"
Kirk : "Yes, well the question remains gentleman; can we engage them with a reasonable possibility of victory?"
Scotty : "No question. Their power is simple impulse."
Kirk : "Meaning we can outrun them."

In "Star Trek: Insurrection", Dougherty said the following: "On Earth, petroleum once turned petty thugs into world leaders, warp drive helped to form a bunch of Romulan thugs into an empire. We can handle the Son'a, I'm not worried about them." Picard replied: "Somebody probably said the same thing about the Romulans a century ago." This seems to indicate that Romulans didn't have warp drive prior to 2275.
-Taken from http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies2a.htm

Have you guys thought of why there was a mine field? I think that there was a mine field because their ships weren't as advance. They needed the mine field to get an advantage. They also had it to set a border for what they call an Empire. The other Solar System surrounding Romulus was probably uninhabited, and they set them for colonization. The cloaking technology was not developed yet also so it was an error in the producer's part.

I think the Romulans in Enterprises' time did not have warp, but something similar to it. It would probably explain why their form of warp is powered by an artificial quantum singularity (miniature black hole). Because they travel in sunlight speed they would encounter time dilations, and as a result would have to study a way to reduce such affect. They would possibly figure out some principles of black holes that would help them gain warp. After all black holes have a high gravitational pull, and would slow down time theoretically. As result they probably gain warp that way.

Also if the Romulans had warp, then they would have won the Earth Romulan war. Earth only has a few warp capable ships, and right now only one warp 5 ship. By the time of the war, and at the rate of construction they probably would have at most 25 ships that is as fast as Enterprise, and a tone of slow ships. Remember the second warp 5 ship is not finished yet and it's already three years after the launch of Enterprise. If they do mass production, then they would have to have multiple shipyards and that would have to take time to construct them. This is if we assume that the warp 5 complex is the only one of its kind, and all other shipyards in the Federation were built for the lesser warp ships. The third warp 5 ship is probably launched a year after the second one is produced, which might be this upcoming 4th season. This is because the process of construction would probably approach a production line speed. Mass production of this type of class would probably begin right after the third ship. Either way when mass production starts, about 5 would probably be produced a year, the process would have begun five years after the launch of Enterprise. This leaves four more years, and five ships per year would put it over 20 ships in Starfleet at the start of the war.

If the Romulans had a major Empire then Earth would have been dust, they probably have a tone of ships and that's why the war was so bloody. Earth probably also rush productions of lesser quality ships in order to counter the Romulans, and probably relied on nuclear weapons, rather than anti-matter because producing anti-matter weapons were probably a rarity at that time. Earth also probably built a tone of ships like the J-class and Y-class ships and fitted shuttles with weapons. Remember the Romulans probably have hundreds of ships, and Earth only a few. Even with warp capability a ton of Romulan ships could just barrage Earth's fleet and severally cripple it. Warp means out run, but the Romulans probably relied on outgunned. If Enterprise could only fire 2 torpedoes every other second, then that would be very slow compared to 5 ships firing torpedoes at the same rate. Imagine Forest Gump with a revolver and a crowd of people throwing rocks at him, even though they might have only hit him several times, and he would have only shot a few people, he would have been hurt, and heal time would take a while. Because there is only a hand full of people like Forest they would have to run a lot with the gun, and sometimes ignore heal time, eventually the damage would build up and then death.

To sum it all up
Romulans = no warp but LOTS of tough ships
Earth = very little advance ships and lots of non-advance ships used as frigates.
Romulans = probably well armed
Earth = ships armed sparingly, and Enterprise lacked phase cannons until they decided they needed it.

To me this is a logical explanition for the reason why the Romuans shouldn't have warp right now. If they did Earth would have been doomed, and done even try the better crew against overwhelming odds, because starfleet's new ships wouldn't have better crews, it would be their first employments.

Now let's point out other continuity mistakes in Enterprise. After all this series was created to bring in "new" audience, and as a result follows a different style than the others, which alienates the devoted trekies. This show is turning into something similar to Episode 1 and 2 of Star Wars. Heavy of the special effects, lackluster on the storyline and plot, and actually worse in some ways when compared to Star Wars, in the sense that it does not answer the questions of the past, and reveal new stuff. Instead it just destroys what we trekies have believed in.

Phantom
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 1695
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 2:00 am

Post by Phantom » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:16 am

wingsabre wrote:Enterprise lacked phase cannons until they decided they needed it.


Actually, the reason why they lacked phase cannons was because their mission launched before Enterprise was and there was no time to install them so they were left in storage on Enterprise


Ad'
Image

User avatar
wingsabre
Cadet 3rd Year
Cadet 3rd Year
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:00 am

Post by wingsabre » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:48 pm

so when their mission was complete they just chose to keep exploring instead of going back and finishing what they didn't? That's extreamily irresponsible, nowonder the vulcans held them back.

so i'm technically right, they only installed it when they decided that they needed it, because if the crew were responsible enough they would have installed it before they began "exploring." Any admerial or any commander of starfleet in their right mind would not risk their top of the line ship. It's just logical.

User avatar
Atomic
Cadet 1st Year
Cadet 1st Year
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 2:00 am

Post by Atomic » Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:38 pm

Atlantis, you make a valid point with the ion drive sleeperships, but you are forgetting relativistic effects, which would come into play at speeds that are a good fraction of the speed of light. It may seem like, say 300 years on the ship, but to the outside universe a lot more time could pass.

ST generally just forgets this entirely, as do most scifi sources.

Atlantis
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Stoke, UK
Contact:

Post by Atlantis » Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:25 pm

Hmm, surely it would be 300 years OUTSIDE the ship, but inside only say 30 years, so i suppose that makes it even easier.

User avatar
wingsabre
Cadet 3rd Year
Cadet 3rd Year
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:00 am

Post by wingsabre » Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:52 pm

That's probably why they had a black hole providing nRg. A black hole theoredically slows down time, but if they're able to creatle one with a reverse spin or something, or just fine a way to reverse the effects, then they might have increased time. The romulan technology is different compared to all the other species. This might be dependent on a lack of warp for a long period of time, making them rely on weapons. Look at the Dominion war, their ships were the last to addapt to the breen weapon.

CenturionV
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Post by CenturionV » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:22 pm

That's probably why they had a black hole providing nRg. A black hole theoredically slows down time, but if they're able to creatle one with a reverse spin or something, or just fine a way to reverse the effects, then they might have increased time. The romulan technology is different compared to all the other species. This might be dependent on a lack of warp for a long period of time, making them rely on weapons. Look at the Dominion war, their ships were the last to addapt to the breen weapon.
I've never seen any convincing evidence for the romulans not having warp technology. The line in BoP was that the ship was powered by impulse, not that it had only impusle drives, there is no way EVER that a sublight race could EVER fight a war with a warp capable race (like the federation) it would take years for romulan ships to even reach a single human colony. The romulans have had warp probably at least as long as the federation, they just use old fusion generators (impulse) for power.
"Oh, now be honest, Captain. Warrior to warrior. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be. No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."

User avatar
wingsabre
Cadet 3rd Year
Cadet 3rd Year
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:00 am

Post by wingsabre » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:35 pm

i dont know, maybe they had warp, but like warp one, and only feasable in extreamily large ships, and the whole Earth-Romulan war was fought with little ships, with big ships carrying the little ones. We'll see in "season 6" unless they decide to mess with the timeline and delay it even more. The only way we will truly know what was the origional intention is to acually see the notes of Gene Roddenberry for the shows.

Remember Federation vs. Borg. The Federation has warp, while the Borg had Transwarp. Isn't Transwarp way more advance than warp? Technology isnt everything, better crew could outlast others.

The Romulans were "exploring" space way before Earth, and their crews are probably better. That's why the war was so costly on both sides. Do you expect Earth to win a war with a hand full of warp 5 ships? Ships cant even fire phasers in warp, and they would have to have extream accuracy to fire at ships impulsing in space. Imagine shooting a can while driving at 100mph. The ships have to come out of warp, and the Romulan-Earth war doesn't have to be extreamily close to earth, it could have just been one stupid conflict which leads to war.

Also maybe the Romulans are a waring species, after all they do have an "Empire" Earth doesn't. They would have more experience in war tactics.

Cpt_Geddes
Cadet 4th Year
Cadet 4th Year
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Some where in the universe

Post by Cpt_Geddes » Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:41 pm

transwarp is faster than warp, but both the federation and borg can travel faster than light.

CenturionV
Ensign
Ensign
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Post by CenturionV » Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:52 am

wingsabre wrote:i dont know, maybe they had warp, but like warp one, and only feasable in extreamily large ships, and the whole Earth-Romulan war was fought with little ships, with big ships carrying the little ones. We'll see in "season 6" unless they decide to mess with the timeline and delay it even more. The only way we will truly know what was the origional intention is to acually see the notes of Gene Roddenberry for the shows.

Remember Federation vs. Borg. The Federation has warp, while the Borg had Transwarp. Isn't Transwarp way more advance than warp? Technology isnt everything, better crew could outlast others.

The Romulans were "exploring" space way before Earth, and their crews are probably better. That's why the war was so costly on both sides. Do you expect Earth to win a war with a hand full of warp 5 ships? Ships cant even fire phasers in warp, and they would have to have extream accuracy to fire at ships impulsing in space. Imagine shooting a can while driving at 100mph. The ships have to come out of warp, and the Romulan-Earth war doesn't have to be extreamily close to earth, it could have just been one stupid conflict which leads to war.

Also maybe the Romulans are a waring species, after all they do have an "Empire" Earth doesn't. They would have more experience in war tactics.
Unlikely, the romulans would have only warp one, thats barely better than fast sublight engines. warp one is only 1 times the speed of light or 1 c,
Warp 2 (TOS scale which enterprise uses) is 8 c, and earth has warp 5! There is no way a warp 1 or even warp 2 or probably even warp 3 race could fight effectivly against a warp 5 race. Though I like the idea about warp carrier ships. The romulans would at least need warp 3-4 to fight effectivly against starfleet. Its quite likely that the romulans have had warp speed near or equal earth all along.

Also as seen in enterprise (can't remember which episode) phasers can be fired at warp, and as seen in a voyager episode (can't remember which) the borg also have regular warp, that they use if there transwarp is damaged.
"Oh, now be honest, Captain. Warrior to warrior. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be. No peace in our time. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends."

Alohaman
Cadet 4th Year
Cadet 4th Year
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:00 am
Location: The Alohaman Corner
Contact:

Post by Alohaman » Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:52 am

The borg can't use Transwarp whenever they feel like it, they need a transwarp portal or tunnel, that's why they use regular warp when they are in the alpha quadrant. Remember in the one episode of Voyager where they show Echip's parents. They say that everytime they develop a good piece of technology the Borg transwarp portal opens and they come and take it =)

Back onto the discussion...
"He who laughs last, thinks slowest."

"Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak."

User avatar
wingsabre
Cadet 3rd Year
Cadet 3rd Year
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:00 am

Post by wingsabre » Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:47 am

The borg could travel at transwarp anytime they want, that's why Voyager tried to steal the transwarp coil.

honestly i do believe that the Romulans did have warp, but since the orgional series said they didn't, then it has to be that way. Remember Enterprise-D defeated the borg alone while the whole wolf 359 fleet was lost. The Romulans came from the vulcans probably several thousands of years ago. They probably were in sleeper ships and from then till now, they probably have been colonizing the planets around their empire, and setting up the mine fields.

They also made a mistake, your not suppose to fire phasers during warp. Remember TNG when Gene Roddenberry was still writing for it? Think about the physics your traveling faster than the speed of light and phasers fire at the speed of light. The phaser beem wouldnt hit the target. The Enterprise never used phasers during warp, they only used torpedo. The only reason that Voyager could fire during warp is that they probably improved that technology in some way. If they couldn't figure how to improve that technology during TNG then how the heck did they get that technology during Enterprise? Maybe they went through a "Dark Age" and lost all advancements and then went to TOS with a less sleek design. Highly unlikely.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests