Undiscovered Country vs Nemisis

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TheNagusTaki
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Undiscovered Country vs Nemisis

Post by TheNagusTaki » Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:17 am

Does anybody realize that there are familiarities with Nemisis and the Undiscovered Country.Like simple things like

Bad guy (UC) General Chang = bald

Bad guy (N) Shinzon = bald

and

Chang's ship comes and fires at the enterprise while cloaked

Shinzon's ship comes and fires at the enterprise while cloaked
Is anybody seeing a common storyline here. Send What you think is sort of the same in each movie. It doesnt have to be perfect.

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Post by Spectre » Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:22 am

Um you've posted this twice by mistake!

and being on topic.

Its probably common that future stories might have the same similarites but i reckon its just a coincidence.

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Post by mystic_hunter_guyver » Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:25 am

Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered Country was originally based on the fall of Communist Russia. Hence the Klingons and the Federation pictured as 2 superpowers.

Star Trek: Nemesis, I really dont know how to describe it. It does have some of the tones of Star Trek 6. But I also get the feeling that it has tones of Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan, for some reason. But its a molding of basically all the movies together. Well thats what I believe.

So to say that Undiscovered Country and Nemesis are close to eachother its not all interlly false, but its not interlly true. Thats my opinion about it. I;'m sure others will have their opinions on the 2 movies. But I personally believe that Undiscovered Country and Nemesis are 2 of the 3 all time BEST Star Trek movies. The other one is The Wrath of Khan, for it brought back a vengeful character from the original series.

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Post by TheNagusTaki » Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:30 am

Ya youre right about that. But there are still alot of things that are similar.
Thats what I want people to find out.

Another example

(UC) Enterprise is nearly destroyed,Excelsior comes

(N) Enterprise is nearly destroyed, Romulans come.

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Post by cecilzero1 » Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:07 am

TheNagusTaki


wrong Forum read this Next time plzs

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Post by TheNagusTaki » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:48 am

sorry

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Post by games-guru » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:13 pm

there are some similaritys in these films but then again there are lots of similaritys in all the star trek films, it could just be very good coincidence, i mean they are both brilliant films, as for the baldness alot of iiconic bad guys have been bold
1: Dr No
2: Dr Evil
3:Gollum
4:The Rock(Doom)
5:Riddick(technically not a baddy)
6:Kingpin(Daredevil)
7:The Hood (Thunderbirds)
well maybe there aernt many iconic bald men but there are a few.

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Post by Neil » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:27 pm

Though to say Shinzon was a bald to make him an iconic villain is wrong. Shinzon was bald because he was Picard's clone and Picard himself is bald. The best Trek villain in a film was probably Khan, and he had a full head of long hair.
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Post by imagin » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:46 pm

They plots may have similarities, but Nemisis is no ripoff of Star Trek VI. Star Trek VI didn't have the "double of the hero" consept.

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Post by Elrond » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:17 pm

Nemesis is also similar to Wrath of Khan in that the First Officer (now Data) gets killed and his katra (aka his brother known as B-4) ends up possibly becoming Data's reincarnation. It's also similar to Wrath of Khan in that the battle's in a nebula.

Another similarity between Nemesis and Undiscovered Country may be that both Schinzon and Chang act like they want peace in the beginning and end up being total jerks. In the Klingon situation (ST: 6), Chang is destroyed and the conspirators are unmasked and talks to peace with the Klingons begin and everyone kisses each other and makes up. In Nemesis, Schinzon is destroyed and with the cooperation of the Romulans, there comes an agreement between the Federation and the Romulan Empire to become allies (heck, they've probably already fought against the Borg already, why not). In both movies, in short, former enemies eventually make up with one another and get a room and smooch each other.

Yeap, originality: 0, plot devices: 10. :lol: (I still love the movies though)
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Post by imagin » Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:51 pm

I think that is one heck of a stretch.

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Post by SherlockHolmes » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:06 pm

Picard was NOT bald at shinzon's age. In fact, he had hair up until at least Jack Crusher's death.

As for Nemesis being one of the best films, the box office would disagree with you. The special effects sucked. The Enterprise E looked as if it had no mass, and Director Stuart Baird was obsessed with "Dark". Count how many times he says the words "Dark, Darker, Darkness" in the director's commentary.

Also, why cant they get thier facts straight. The Enterprise E has 24 decks, certainly not 29 (and notice the reman falls down 10 more decks at least while fighting riker) . If you donbt believe me, look at the master display behind picard and count the decks.

The Federation uses dune buggies in the 24th century? I would rather believe they use hovercrafts. That entire sequence was un-needed. Funny that the idiot known as Stuart Baird cut out a lot of critical footage that should have remained in the film. Such as the scene where Picard and data discuss it being thier final mission being together. It turned a potentially good movie written by John Logan into a action flick that had no substance.
In Insurrection, The Enterprise E never lost shields, yet, the bridge looked more damaged than it did any in nemesis.

In all fairness, I must say when i saw the movie in theatres it was pretty exciting. But it has very little rewatch value.

Undiscovered country was very solid. You get a very good sense of closure with the cast. However , in nemesis, you dont feel any closure at all.

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Post by Elrond » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:06 pm

Especially when we go to consider that Riker and that viceroy were fighting on Deck 29 and it looked like the Viceroy fell another 200 feet. That would have to make the Enterprise, oh, the size of an Excalibur class ship, which it isn't. They basically put in a random number for the deck 29 and thus screwed up the entire plot. If the discussion with Data and Picard were included, I agree that woulda given the movie a little bit more closure.

PS: The enterprise did seem like an empty shell now that I think of it. The model afterall was just that. The special effects weren't all that advanced. I guess Picard wanted to drive a dune buggy so they made it so. :/ Notice that they gave the dune buggy a sort of ion engine sound so that it'd sound like a futuristic dune buggy. But it's just a dune buggy with a compressor that makes that kinda noise. Not all that impressive for a sci-fi film.

I still loved watching all the movies though.
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Post by Captain_H » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:01 pm

Not every captain in starfleet wants to have the most advanced vehicle, maybe Picard is fond of the older style. It is not like starfleet does not have any wheeled vechicles at all. It is not said that they do not, so the movie makers had the creative license to add a buggy.
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Post by Elrond » Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:21 pm

I didn't say that. People stop putting words in my mouth. God.
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