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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:07 pm
by blindeye01
Aliens are the greatest red herring in history for the governement.

How better to cover up more mundane albeit lethal and classified activity.

The government does keep secrets, but they cleverly have people chasing a false conspiracy.

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:27 pm
by CaptSyf
I have encountered things that could be call UFOs. I have seen some strange things in my life. I do not believe anything the goverenment says. There is the slim possiblity that aliens have been here. But however, Let's look at this...

Let's say that the 5 blue planets are the ones that hold life on them.

If an alien race achieved FTL (no, not just true lightspeed, but Faster than), Then they are ready for true exploration of the stars. Now lets just throw in that there is a few species in this galaxy that can achieve FTL at some point. Now the most logical way to explore is in a spiral, moving outward. Eventually, one would run into the others. However, at the speed of light, this would take millions of years, since most stars we have observed are at least 1 LY apart (LY=Light Year, LS=Lightspeed), and there are millions of stars. Take into account that exploring space would reap rewards in resouces, so looking for life is not going to be the only goal of any species. Now, at 2x LS, that race can cover 2x the distance, but that still keeps it from going out too far, because they are going in circles, so to speak. So, level up the speed to 100x LS, then the rate of discovery increases, but still, you have to take into account random events, and points of interest. And to get more specific, the odds of finding a primitive planet that can be "terraformed" is higher than the odds of finding life on a planet. So, now we are building the equation needed, Just to find out the chance of a contact. So, even at 1,000x LS, it would still take hundreds of thousands of years for a few craft, or hundreds of thousands of FTL spacecraft several decades to even get far enough away from their home planet, that there is a chance of a contact situation. And then, you have to throw in the idea that if they are that technologically advanced, they my be more interested in other galaxies. Now think about the random events factor. You could have an engine failure, a medical situation, a phenomenon in space (something that is unexpected), and thounsands of more possiblities. Oh, and lets not forget that the other races encounter each other long before humans come into the picture. What are the odds of conflict. We don't really know for sure, because we haven't sat around a table talking to them.

So, that's just the way I look at things. I do believe that Aliens DO exist, However, I also look at it that the chance of aliens have been to earth is SLIM. Just look at what we do know for sure. We have mapped out several stars this far, and as far as the sciencetist say, most other planets out there are more like Jupiter. So, if living planets are few and far between, then the odds are highly against an encounter.

Now say we are the first species to develope FTL technology. How do you think we would do things. The most illogical thing to do is just pick a star and go. That would prove fruitless for anything. Sure, there is the "luck" factor, that I could point to a star, and say let's go see what's there, and find aliens on a planet on that star. But then again, you don't just go into a star system and see life. Once a ship gets to a star system, then you would go through the system getting readings of all things possible. So, the spiral exploration plan works the best. That way, when something important or useful is found, more ships can be sent to that location on a direct coarse. Then operations of mining or whatever are set up, and the explorer goes on to the next star, or it may return home for whatever reason, in which another ship would take it's place. So now we see what would happen when we get FTL.

So, in conclusion, I just don't think that E.T. has made it here. I do believe that E.T. is out there. I also do believe that there is a ton of BS that the governments feed the populations, however, I don't buy into all the stories of "E.T. probed my rear" and other BS. I'll tell you what I do see, is that some people are instructed to go to the media, to help spread the propaganda and lore of E.T.s walking around. As long as there is the scare of E.T.s probing people and the scare of Terrorists blowing up the planet, then the governments can control people better. However, I think this is not 100% on topic when talking about what the governments, so I'll end that.

So, the title of this thread is "Do you believe in UFOs". For me, the answer is yes.

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:58 pm
by blindeye01
Very well put CaptSyf. You explained my opinion in a far more detailed way

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:56 pm
by AFC
Let me explain this the simple way.

We as a planet are not ready for the next step, but i sure we will push our way out there and find other races.

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:33 pm
by Elrond
blindeye01 wrote:Very well put CaptSyf. You explained my opinion in a far more detailed way
Indeed I agree there. CaptSyf is right. It is possible that we have been visited, but very unlikely. Nothing is impossible. But exploration like that even at 1000x LS is going to take an aweful long time to find anything since everything's just so dang far apart.

Right now, the Universe is our solar system. Then when we explore that, this section of the galaxy may as well be our universe. That's how big a scale the galaxy is. It is like our own little universe - except it ain't all that little and at the same time, it is very small compared to the rest of the universe.

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:22 pm
by blindeye01
This is just speculation. I'd put a lot more credence into the government hiding the Aurora spyplane. The alien stuff is just the bait for the tinfoil hat wearers of the world.

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:49 pm
by CaptSyf
I agree with you AFC, we as a whole, are not ready for the things that await us out there. The same goes for first contact. If E.T. comes and stops by to say HI, then all heck breaks loose.

Elrond, your right about that. This is our little universe, which will grow as our capabilities do.

Blindeye, bingo! The gov. use all this E.T. BS to hid the truth about what they are really up to.

Roswell was a coverup alright. I think it was a top secret airplane or other technologially important piece of hardware. I see it as the sudden "coming out of the closet" people that were there telling the world it really was aliens suggest that that project is still a secret project. Honestly, do you thinl the government would let these guys get on T.V. and say what the truth was. Nope, I don't. I hate to say it, but even though those guys are on their deathbeds, they still have to fear the government for their families' sake. If they tell the truth, their family will pay the price, and the truth will be discredited so quickly, that most people will never believe it. Grandpa is not going to tell what he knows when he has 6 grandkids to think about. I know I wouldn't!

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:39 am
by Twitch
The point I attempt to make is not for or against alien visits. It is against the smugness of humanity always thinking how superior it collectively is at any given point in our past and including the present so as to imagine that we know it all.

WHY must we think that the speed of light or time or distance has to be the ONLY way to go from point A to point B? There is a good probability that some enlightening things await us out there. Be it forms of wormholes, inter-dimensional movement or whatever we can't yet imagine.

There may come a source of energy or science mechanics that will render what we think now as quaintly obsolete. At each scientific triumph throughout history we have thought with swaggering defiance that we're bad to the bone in out intellect and collective world knowledge.

Known science cannot be an end all last word on everything. If it was and everyone accepted it all as gospel no one would delve into anything beyond and would never discover the next big thing. If you have played a board game with a pair of dice you have experienced synchonicity. Statistical probability is not some absolute that never deviates. Sychronicity destroys statistical probability all to hell. How? Let's say the probability of rolling double 6 is one in 200,000. Yet you roll that combination 3 times in a game. That would pretty much preclude that you'll just about never see double 6s again in your life or at least for decades IF you play the game on an adictive basis. But you know that's not the case. You roll the dice in contrary regard to statistical probability often. We have all done it!!

Sychronicity- meaningful coincidence- is at work in the universe or at least out little corner of it. Sychronicity defies the logic of predictability on a regular basis so that a well calculated exploration game plan like CaptSyf made gets high marks for logic but is scrambled when meaningful coincidence reigns. Even if a huge lottery win is a 1 in 40 million chance does not someone win? Oft times SEVERAL people pick the same numbers. Explain that. A scientist points to defying statistical probability yet we constantly do it in dice rolling and in happenstance of life.

We keep logically convincing ourselves that this or that is not possible like a bunch of ****-retentive Vulcans. We exist in 3 dimensions yet we reason in 2 like a cartoon drawing on paper. While New Guinea headhunters do not have the knowledge to build a powered aircraft it does not mean it is impossible in relatively nearby Australia. Could it be so in the boundless universe? That there is a possessed knowledge vastly superior to ours? It is not only possible, it is quite likely. To discount that is bigoted yet groundless considering what we actually know and think we know.

How many times, I wonder have those seeking knowledge and inventions suddenly slapped their palm to their forehead and cried "Eureka! Of course. Why didn't I see the answer staring at me? I seems SO easy now."

If we preclude the possibilities then we regress to the dark age mentality of pre-Renaissance "it can't be done" mindset. Before electricity, before nuclear fussion, before powered flight, before a million things we take for granted today there were 2 kinds of people on this planet- those that scoffed at what others imagined and those that made their imagined ideas reality. Guess it's still that way.

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:27 pm
by CaptSyf
I agree with you there Twitch. Science does not know everything, and as history has shown us (e.g. Kitty hawk airplaine, the X planes that broke the sound barrier, and even iron), something comes along an crushes what people thought was the penultimate of science. I sure hope that such a discovery is on the horizion within my lifetime.

Indeed, I would accept it if it were proven that Aliens have been here. I have seen some amasing things that are hard to explain without some form of E.T. involvement. But also, it comes down to the fact that the governments think they can tell people what to believe. That is where these narrow mindsets come from. The common person does not want to think outside the box. Aliens are a myth to them, and since there is not one standing in front of them, they will continue to beleive that myth is what they are.

One thing that I often ask myself, is that even though mankind as a whole is not ready for an encounter, is that right for all. I think I am open minded, and most people that come to AFC are. Can it be safe to say that people like us are capable enough to handle an encounter? Are people like us ready to go journey the stars, given the chance right now? I personally would love to be an explorer and go out looking for life beyond here on this planet. Personally, I think politics are slowing our science to a crawl. I've already seen several research projects cancelled or put on hold because the politics don't beleive they will prove fruitful enough to line their pockets with money anytime soon. Those projects that would cost billions because they are long term projects. I really don't understand why not invest in long term research. But that's just me I guess.

So, over all, politics and government prevent scientific growth, they prevent people from know the truth (whatever it may be), they try real hard to control the masses daily.

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:08 pm
by blindeye01
I agree twitch that we should not see ourselves as superior. What I meant was not to imply that. I simply meant that advanced races would still have huge odds of visiting Earth, let alone regularly.

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:41 am
by Zered003
As always CaptSYF your post are very insightful. I agree with you.

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:04 am
by JPKTrekker
Scientists have never proven what caused life to happen. For all we know, life on Earth could all be on big alien experiment.

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:32 am
by icewolf132
JPKTrekker wrote:Scientists have never proven what caused life to happen. For all we know, life on Earth could all be on big alien experiment.
why do I get the feeling that if that is true that we're failing miserably :?

I highly doubt that any sentient life would make contact anytime soon due to the state the worlds in right now, unless you count hostil alen life forms. and quite honestly I wouldn't blame them; humanity is extreamly afraid of changes and things that are diffrent from what we're use to, and there are some people out there who can't control them selves and go bonkers when there is change and try to change the change back to what they like and erase any diffrances.

but some of us have learned to accept change and welcome diffrances, which is a step in the right direction - we need change, without it humanity can not survive.

also, as Twitch and CaptSyf talked about, if someone tells you something is impossible it usaly isn't, well in time it wont be. I guarantee you that every 10 years something that was considered impossible becomes possible, its only a matter of time ;)

bleh, ok going back on topic; I honestly think that we are being watched by alens, and that they're waiting for things to cool down. when they make first contact or why *shrugs* you never know until it happens :)

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:53 am
by Twitch
In surveys the majority of those querried said they are not fearsome of alien encounters so the government concept of how they can't tell us anything cause we'll freak out is bogus. There are too many paradoxes that contradict when we look a government information or lack of it.

JPKTrekker- well, the building block cells of life have been found in asteroids so that is not at all an impossiblity, that life came here and germinated.

Icewolf- yeah how do we know we are not being watched? If an inhabited world in our neighborhood wanted to it might mask its signs of life and technology.

Like everyone, I need some incontrivertable evidence that we have visitors but the fact that there is other life in the universe is only discounted by closed-minded folks.

There are many things, however, that I have not personally experienced. That doesn't make them any less real.

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:25 pm
by kai121
Picture how their could be more than one universe, say a Multiverse to make it simple, and in each one of these universes you do something different at the same time. Now say you managed to be able to switch places using the multiverse theory then you could in theory go anywhere. Youd just hope U dont hop in at a time where your killed, otherwise your screwed :wink: