Capital Punishment

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Post by Harrie » Sat May 21, 2005 9:13 am

yep, botany bay i think... anyone seen Escape from LA or something like that. an earthquake turned LA into an island (1997 i think) and they used it as a prison.

Edit: its also in Escape from New York (1981). both are kurt russel movies
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Post by kai121 » Sat May 21, 2005 2:35 pm

Not seen either...or heard of for that matter. but they do sounf a buit interesting...
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Post by blindeye01 » Sun May 22, 2005 1:11 am

I thought the Botany Bay was Kahn"s ship.
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Post by Harrie » Sun May 22, 2005 2:17 am

The crew of the Endeavour became the first Europeans to visit the bay on 29 April 1770, when they landed on the southern Kurnell peninsula, making contact with the area's indigenous inhabitants. Cook originally named the bay Stingray Harbour. It was later renamed Botany Bay due to the diversity of new species of plant and animal discovered and catalogued by the expedition's botanist, Sir Joseph Banks. Banks was impressed by the site and recommended it an ideal site for a British colony.

In 1788, Captain Arthur Phillip led the First Fleet into the bay on 19 January 1788 to found a penal colony there. Finding that the sandy infertile soil of the site in fact rendered it most unsuitable for settlement, Phillip decided instead to move to the excellent natural harbor of Port Jackson to the north. On 26 January, while still anchored in the bay, the British encountered the French exploratory expedition of Jean-François de La Pérouse. Panicked by the thought that the French might beat them to it, the colonists sailed that afternoon to found a settlement at Sydney Cove. Despite the move, for many years afterward, the Australian penal colony would be referred to as "Botany Bay" in England - in convict ballads, for instance.

taken off http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botany_Bay

it was also kahns ship
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Post by Cylon » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:58 pm

what if some1 who si inoccent is found guilty of murder once they are dead it is irriverible

thats why i am glad we dont hav eit here in the uk (except u can still tecnicly get the death penalty for treason)
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Post by shadow » Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:07 am

Well,

to say the least, I was shocked reading this thread in a way. Shocked not by the matter but by the carelessness of the argumentation.

That some people and societies still think of the death penalty as a proper means of punishment is a saddening but true reality.

Problem is:

The death penalty has proven itself useless, counterproductive and even dangerous in the past. And it is discontinued in most countries in the world for good reason.

Before you lose your temper let me explain.

1)Uselessness:
The death penalty never ever has kept one criminal from committing his crimes at all. No punishment imaginable ever has done so.

This is a historically proven fact.

To a varying degree most societies had capital punishment in their past. It did nothing towards lowering the crime rate at all, it just had a tremendously high price tag.

The problem here is that basically all criminals think that they will not get caught. That they are the chosen one who will perform the perfect crime. So they do not think about consequences at all.

If you really want to lower the crime rate and have a safer society, you better forget about capital punishment and its extraordinary high cost.
Use the money for the best equipment in crime labs etc. that is out there. And let them rot in jail.

Cost towards society is much lower this way.

You can in fact catch and keep more criminals in jail, even for live, for same amount of money that it costs to execute one of them.

And by the way: When live is over punishment is over.
There is nothing afterwards. If you have an other opinion, fine, but prove me scientifically.
I accept nothing else.

Insisting in the death penalty has more to do with feelings and emotions of revenge than with justice. Well, understandable to some point, we are all not so far away from caveman.


2)counterproductive:
If you use the death penalty towards a terrorist or other zealots, as it happened in the US as well as in other countries, it has a short term soothing effect towards the victims relatives.

But it also creates an icon for the followers of the culprit. It glorifies him even in their eyes and worsens the situation in the long run.



3)dangerous

Capital punishment is the only punishment that can not be reversed or be compensated for.

There are lots of cases where people got sentenced who were wrongly accused.
This happened either due to bad police work, mistakes in the judicial processes or even malice.
When one person accuses an other one just to get even a lot can happen.
You had such cases in the US they happened elsewhere. Luckily they were discovered in the end, but innocent people lost years of their lives. In one case I read about even 14 years.

What if they had been executed easily? Just as some of comments implied.


And by the way, how will you punish those who did not do their jobs right and due to there negligence murdered an innocent person?
Be that jury member, judge or prison guard or any one else. An false execution is a crime ( a murder) also. No matter how you will try to call it else.

Well keep that in mind. And get down to earth.

The death penalty is something out of the past. It has no place in the future, not if we all would not like to be cavemen again.

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Post by Thrawn » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:24 pm

I wholehartedly support the death penalty, the punishment should fit the crime.

Edit: To Prevent furthur misunderstanding.
Last edited by Thrawn on Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by EAS_Intrepid » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:42 am

Thrawn wrote:First, torture them until they go insane, then publicly hang them.

Anyone suspected of being an accomplice should be interrogated and, if found to be guilty, subject to execution as well.
Sorry to say that, but then your not better than the islamo-fascist terrorists.
The Taliban for instance did it just that way. Saddam, though not being Muslim, did it that way, too. And Iran also. Shall I list more?
Yes, Nazi-Germany did that, too. And Stalin in the Soviet Union! Yeah, they did such things too.

I fully agree to Shadow. In my country is a much lower crime rate as in the US and since 1945 we do not have any executions of murders or rapists.
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Post by Thrawn » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:51 pm

First of all I do not appreciate being compared to terrorists.

Second, it appears a paragraph was lost somehow... I do not believe this should be used for all crimes, however I do support harsher punishment in many cases.

Execution should be reserved for Terrorists, Murderors, and Traitors.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one, if punishment of one (no matter which type) can protect the many, it is only logical to punish them in a matter itting their crime.

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Post by mark » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:09 pm

[quote="Thrawn"]First of all I do not appreciate being compared to terrorists.

quote]
then you should not say things like torture the mtill they go insane should you, such an act is terrorism.
i personally support he death penalty, i fail to see why my taxs should pay to keep a child rapist and murderer in comfort for the rest of his life. there he is in his cell, o ya he is reallt paying ofr his crim aion`t he, got a kettle to make tea and coffe, got a radio, got a tv, and now the guys in belmarsh (all in the uk btw) are whining because there laptops got taken away as some guys managed to rehook thme to the net. why the hell did they have laptops to begin with? peison is meant to be a punisment, sadly in the uk it has become a joke. o and for the liberal donkeys who would disagree, i have speant time in prison i know just how easy doing time now is.

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Thrawn
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Post by Thrawn » Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:33 pm

mark wrote:
Thrawn wrote:First of all I do not appreciate being compared to terrorists.

quote]
then you should not say things like torture the mtill they go insane should you, such an act is terrorism.
i personally support he death penalty, i fail to see why my taxs should pay to keep a child rapist and murderer in comfort for the rest of his life. there he is in his cell, o ya he is reallt paying ofr his crim aion`t he, got a kettle to make tea and coffe, got a radio, got a tv, and now the guys in belmarsh (all in the uk btw) are whining because there laptops got taken away as some guys managed to rehook thme to the net. why the hell did they have laptops to begin with? peison is meant to be a punisment, sadly in the uk it has become a joke. o and for the liberal donkeys who would disagree, i have speant time in prison i know just how easy doing time now is.

What I meant was that the punishment should fit the crime.

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Post by shadow » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:20 pm

To Thrawn

The freedom of speech is a fundamental human right but it has to be used with care and thought.
All of us who live in a western style democracy have it and can say whatever we want.
But we have also to live with the consequences.

If you do not want to be compared to terrorists or religious fundamentalists you better take care of your language.

Your parents and close friends who know you in person may know how something is meant.
But all members of the internet-community have just your words to make a judgment.
You create an lasting impression of you by the words you use.

In Germany we have a proverb, translated in English it says:
“Switch on your brains before you open your mouth”
Just an advice for the future.


To your comment that punishment should fit the crime.
Well that is a discussion that will run as long as humans walk on earth.

But the important question is: Do we want to get down on their level?
Do we as a society want to be as bad as those we have to punish?
Do we have to be killers just to punish them?

I do not want to be such a low creature at all.

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Post by Numbazix » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:25 am

Can't we all just get along?

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Post by Twitch » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:58 pm

Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out!
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Post by Phantom » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:07 pm

If I was able to lay down law in the UK


Rapists, Murderers with intent, Phidos would be given the death penalty.



Murder with intent, is like serial killers or people that murder others for the sake of it. Life imprisonment would be 50 years with no bail release. - Not 15 and let out after 5 on good behaviour.


Yobs or misfit teenagers would be sent to detention centers till they are 21.


Foreign criminals and illegal imigrants would be shot on sight.



:)

Thats what I'd do. - No over crowded prisons that way too which is an extra plus,



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