Multi-Universal Combat (Science and Math applied)

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Elrond
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Post by Elrond » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:10 am

I will be watching this thread VERY CLOSELY. I understand the idea of the discussion is the technological aspects of the two, but if it does turn into a 'which is better' SOS same ol' thing, then like Trekker said, I'll lock this thread.
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Post by Majestic » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:13 am

Thanks Trekker. But all of the trouble didn't start till I left. Anyway this is off-topic so I would not like to see anymore of this topic here.

It can be posted in the save Frontiers thread.

Now back onto the Multi-Universal Combat (Science and Math applied) discusion.

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Post by Elrond » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:36 am

Things like this are a team effort. That means the entire team would be to blame if anyone was. And that's my final word on that - you were not responsible for causing trouble. If that was the case, then I would be responsible as well, as I left the storyline of Frontiers before it even began. :P

Ok. Now the math involved. Let's see. The Death Star is like I dunno, 200 miles wide or something like that. LOL. Depends on what Death Star I'm referring to I suppose.

Generally speaking, craft in Star Wars are usually much bigger than in Trek. A Stardestroyer is over a mile long, a Super Stardestroyer is like 12 miles long. An Excalibur class starship in Trek, which is one of the largest ship classes in the fleet, is about 1150 meters long, which is still less than a mile long, but getting close to the size of a star destroyer.

One craft in general now takes the cake for being the largest single structure ever - the Dyson Sphere - over 200 million kilometers in diameter - and can hold a population in its inner surface that is a million trillion trillion in number (or something big like that lol).

As far as the Borg, their ships are like 3000 meters in diameter generally (if considering a Cube). That's bigger than a Stardestroyer, but is easily smaller than a Super Star Destroyer. I'm not sure of the shield power that Star Wars ships and stations have, so it's hard to tell who would win the fight - the Borg or the Empire. It'd be quite an interesting battle no doubt. The Borg adapt though, so that is taken into consideration. But the Federation seems to have little trouble defeating a Borg Cube (of course, that is after like losing 50 ships lol).


PS: The amigos are the only ones online: Elrond, Majestic, Hellkite, Icewolf, and Trekker. lol! :P
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Post by Hellkite » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:39 am

Elrond wrote:I will be watching this thread VERY CLOSELY. I understand the idea of the discussion is the technological aspects of the two, but if it does turn into a 'which is better' SOS same ol' thing, then like Trekker said, I'll lock this thread.
SOS

LOL

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Post by Elrond » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:45 am

Yeah. I love using those three letter. lol
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Post by icewolf132 » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:52 am

I belive that the Borg Cube can easily whip the poo out of an average Star Destroyer (not counting fighter or corvett support) with very little or no damage, a Super Star Destroyer might have a chance though, as long as the borg don't target the command bridge :lol:

Boarding wise, we know how quickly the Borg can adapt to energy weapons, im not sure if they could adapt their sheilding to defend against Light Sabers (if a weilder of one encounters them) and I doubt they'd beable to adapt to the Force.

...this would be a very interesting encounter to see :)

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What exactly does SOS stand for anyways?
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Post by Elrond » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:05 am

LOL. SOS stands for "Same old sh**". LOL.

That's one cool thing to use against the Borg - the force. Eventhough it'd probably be rediculous for either to encounter each other, it would be interesting to see a special 2-hour special about it. lol. The Force fighting the Borg. Wouldn't that be something if the Jedi and Sith had to join forces to fight the Borg? LOL. :lol:
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Post by icewolf132 » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:20 am

Ahh, ive got to remember that :lol:

I wonder how things would turn out if the Borg managed to assimilated a Jedi or a Sith, if that were to happen the Borg may (and I say may) find a way to adapt the force to their drones. Just imagine...Darth Maul of Borg! 8O
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Post by Elrond » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:22 am

That would be so awesome. I'd have no choice but to be assimilated if that happened. LOL.

They would no doubt be unstoppable!
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Post by blindeye01 » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:26 am

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

You guys were not supposed to flame about my joke in the funny pics thread. I should have known it would be too easy for you guys to start up the debate again.
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Post by jolt » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:48 am

Let's go on maths. The Destroyers (the bigguns) and fighters need to be very close to target an enemy ship but in relative distance he Borg could fire a large amount of weaponary without getting too close.

Additional points include the Borg adapation, if this is scientifically reasonable, it is flawed in that unconsistent weaponary, that of a disruptor from ST or a laser from SW have different settings and frequencies etc. which the Borg would not be able to adapt to but in theory, the Borg would easily stand up to a lightsaber as it is a consistent force (much like Fed. phasers.)

And it should also be known that the Borg do have a sort of shielding which acts as an additional defence (though only on the bigger Cube's or weapon ships). Even with assimilation on their side, not enough lower ranking officers know about the super laser so defence against that would be inaccurate.

Going on force, the Borg would be able to send a large amount of heavy weaponary which might also pass through the shields of the bigger ships, even the Death Star.

Finally, we see in FC the Cube getting destroyed and taking out with it numerous Federation ships too close to it, so, even if the Imperial side won, it'd be a short lived victory.

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Post by JPKTrekker » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:07 am

Jolt, you seem to forget the scenes where the Borg insert their assimilation tubes into the actual ships structure (few Voyager episodes). So, I think that is possible for the Borg to actually assimilate the computer system prior to assimilating the crew.
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Post by Draconia » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:38 am

Here is a link to a site that has alot of articles about Star Trek stuff.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles.htm
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Post by JPKTrekker » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:40 am

Draconia wrote:Here is a link to a site that has alot of articles about Star Trek stuff.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles.htm
Thank-you, Draconia.

Here is a link to a site which allows one to compare the size difference between real-life craft and craft from various sci-fi's.
Hellkite wrote:Jeff Russell's STARSHIP DIMENSIONS note: use IE

http://www.merzo.net/
I find this site quite useful.
http://www.ussmiranda.com/resources.htm

Here is a link to the Babylon 5 essay site. (I thought I should repost it here with the other links).
http://www.b5tech.com/science/essays.htm

This is a link to another Babylon 5 essay site. This site is an archive of independent essays containing the scientific observations of fans concerning the ships, weapons and technology of the "Babylon 5" universe.
http://www.b5tech.com/earthforce/index.html

Here is a link to a site that discusses some Star Trek technology.
http://www.treknology.org/index.htm

This is a link to a site that has alot of stuff about Enterprise era tech.
http://www.starfleet-museum.org/index.htm

The following is a link to a site that has Star Wars Technical Commentaries.
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/

This following site has done alot of comparisons between Star Trek and Star Wars stuff.
http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWhi2.html


I think that the city destroying weapon used by the aliens in Independence Day may have been similar to the Death Star's super-laser.

According to the site provided in Hellkite's quote, the Indepence Day alien mothership is several times bigger than the second Death Star (Mothership: Around 800 kilometers long; Death Star II: Around 160 kilometers (official size)).

Of course, size doesn't always determine fire power. For example, in the Star Trek universe, an Oberth equipped with a Genesis Torpedo could wipe out all life on an entire planet.

P.S.: Using the site Hellkite provided, I compared the White Star class to various Star Trek ships. The White Star is larger than an Excelsior class, but smaller than an Ambassador class. The closest Star Trek craft to the size of the White Star are the Cardassian Galor and Keldon classes (which are slightly larger).
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Post by Raptor » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:56 pm

Based on the power of the Death Star's super laser (could destroy a planet), The Borg Cube wouldn't have a chance once the Death Star fired. Now, assuming this is a third Death Star using the upgraded plans (a completed version of the DS2), the Borg Cube would have a hard time destroying it, because. 1) An SSD crrashed into the DS2, after which the DS2 continued firing, with only moderate damage caused. 2) the Borg adapt to specific frequencies of weapons, and take several hits before adapting. The Death star would need only one shot, and even if the Borg had adapted, the vast amount of energy (enough to destroy a planet) would overload the Borg ship and still destroy it.

Assimilation would be a challenge since most of the troops on board wear armor, and the Borg would take a while figuring out how to penetrate the armor, and once tthey adapted, the Imperials would switch to more powerful weapons.
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