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Multi-Universal Combat (Science and Math applied)

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:45 am
by JPKTrekker
I got the idea for this thread because of an interesting discussion in another thread.

That discussion originated because of this pic.
blindeye01 wrote:Here's another one:

<img src="http://img162.echo.cx/img162/8540/abadmatch5oh.jpg">
Here are the posts from that thread involving the discussion.
JPKTrekker wrote:
blindeye01 wrote:Here's another one:

http://img162.echo.cx/img162/8540/abadmatch5oh.jpg
I wonder which would win. Might make for a great cross-over movie or series.
Hellkite wrote:Borg they eat the Deathstar like apple
JPKTrekker wrote:I wonder what an assimilated Death Star would look like. Or, for that matter, what any Star Wars craft would look like assimilated (or Borg-ified).

Hehe, that gives me a funny mental image: Darth Vader of Borg. :lol:
Corbomite_Ray wrote:Death Star. There's a simple equation. Tractor beams, superlaser. Bang.

"I am Ackbarus of Borg. Resistance is futile. It's a trap!"
JPKTrekker wrote:
Corbomite_Ray wrote:Death Star. There's a simple equation. Tractor beams, superlaser. Bang.

"I am Ackbarus of Borg. Resistance is futile. It's a trap!"
Ahh, but you forget that the Borg could transport over before their ship is destroyed. Just like they did in First Contact. And, unlike the Enterprise-E crew, I doubt the Imperials would be able to withstand the Borg assault (we can't forget the Borg's infamous ability to adapt).

Just imagine if the Borg were able to assimilate the superlaser technology. Then we would have Cubes able to destroy Earth with one shot. I think if that had happened, they would have won First Contact.
Hellkite wrote:
JPKTrekker wrote:
Corbomite_Ray wrote:Death Star. There's a simple equation. Tractor beams, superlaser. Bang.

"I am Ackbarus of Borg. Resistance is futile. It's a trap!"
Ahh, but you forget that the Borg could transport over before their ship is destroyed. Just like they did in First Contact. And, unlike the Enterprise-E crew, I doubt the Imperials would be able to withstand the Borg assault (we can't forget the Borg's infamous ability to adapt).

Just imagine if the Borg were able to assimilate the superlaser technology. Then we would have Cubes able to destroy Earth with one shot. I think if that had happened, they would have won First Contact.
I concur with Trekker the borg would just beam and take over

But I see it going this way

the Borg come out of transwarp and see the Deathstar the then tranport a small group of drones over to the deathstar just as they did in" Q who " given the Limted security progaming on Emp computers "See all the time R2D2 broke in to one of them " they gain control of the Deathstar's computers in the menwile the Emp. ponder who in the hell are they... before get the borg offical greating "We are the Borg " as the emp. systems lock up


game set match :D
Corbomite_Ray wrote:You forget that ion cannons would waste a shieldless Borg Cube in no time flat rendering it inert and unable to do anything. Which would also sever the drones in alcoves aboard the Cube's connection to the Collective, by the way, and shut their mechanical components down.
JPKTrekker wrote:
Corbomite_Ray wrote:You forget that ion cannons would waste a shieldless Borg Cube in no time flat rendering it inert and unable to do anything. Which would also sever the drones in alcoves aboard the Cube's connection to the Collective, by the way, and shut their mechanical components down.
But, the Empire would have to know that the Borg pose a threat before they even charge any of their weapons. In the time it would take for that, the Borg would already have beamed aboard.
Hellkite wrote:not to start the Sw VS ST debate their is no data that the Borg ship are efficted by ion cannons and it is highly unlike likely that in would do anything due to the Fact that the borg sys are baced in Subspace " best of both world and unmatrix 0"
I created this thread because that discussion was taking the other thread off-topic. Feel free to post any continuation of the above disscusion or what you think really would happen in any Star Trek versus Star Wars (or any other sci-fi movie or series) scenario.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:49 am
by Hellkite
Oh god not again :roll:

this a topic that should be avioded at all cost for it leads dark hateful places

just as the topics of Relgion and politics

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:50 am
by Corbomite_Ray
C'mon Hellkite, electricity versus mechanical circuitry. The Borg would get screwed.

The Death Star controllers didn't seem to take too long to identify the Millennium Falcon as a threat. It's a single 3 km Borg Cube vs. a 120 km Death Star. I don't think we even need to bother mentioning the immense number of fighters that the Death Star carries. The Cube is unshielded, while the Death Star's shields and armor are ridiculously heavy.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:53 am
by Hellkite
it not mechanical circuitry it Bio-mechanical circuitry when it come to the Borg

I'm not going down this path

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:53 am
by Corbomite_Ray
So it's bio-mechanical circuitry. Electricity seemed to work pretty well on Vader.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:55 am
by JPKTrekker
Corbomite, if the Imperials had deemed the Falcon a threat, then they would have simply destroyed it and not brought it inside to investigate. Plus, it wasn't until the 2nd Death Star that the superlaser was good enough to target individual capital ships. The original Death Star didn't have the aiming capabilities. Plus, we still need to consider what would happen if the Borg went up against something else from the Star Wars universe, say a Victory class Star Destroyer, or maybe, a MC-40.

Hellkite, this thread wasn't created to decide which was better. I started this because I was wondering about the technological aspects. In some places I have read that the Star Trek style shields would be overwhelmed by the shear number of weapons on Star Wars style ships. In other places, I have read that the Star Wars style armor wouldn't stand up to Star Trek style weapons (think Tricobolt Torpedo).

If anyone attemps to turn this thread into a which is better or trys to start a flame war, then I will quickly recommend to the Admins that this thread be locked. Let us discuss this topic calmly, cooly, and logically.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:02 am
by Hellkite
Corbomite_Ray wrote:So it's bio-mechanical circuitry. Electricity seemed to work pretty well on Vader.
nope vader is not even close to the borg in the Bio tech

Exp.

scene from "Revulsion"[VOY]:

Seven : "The optical assembly is properly aligned. I am ready to access the main power supply."
Kim : "After you."
(The pair climb down, and Seven begins to reach into a conduit)
Kim : "Wait! What are you doing, there are five million gigawatts running through there!"
Seven : "The exoskeleton on this limb can withstand it."


this is my last post on this topic

I say again
this a topic that should be avioded at all cost for it leads dark hateful places

just as the topics of Relgion and politics

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:02 am
by Corbomite_Ray
Well, I guess we'll never know, eh? Personally I think that the massive output of the Star Wars weaponry (we're talking giga- and terra-joules here) would screw over most of the Trek races in no time flat, and I don't even want to think about what the Alpha Blue folks could do to Species 8472. But if the Q Continuum got involved, good-bye Star Wars.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:06 am
by JPKTrekker
Hellkite, I agree with you. This can become a dark subject if we descend to the depths of arguing which is better. However, if that starts to happen, I will recomend that the thread become locked at that time myself. Though, if we can talk calmly, cooly, logically, and with a level-head, I think we can discuss the technoligical aspects of what would happen if, say, the Peacekeepers from Farscape fought the Imperials from Star Wars (and other similar situations involving other sci-fi universes).

Corbomite, there was that one T.N.G. episode where the ship was threatened by another ship. Picard asked for a tactical readout and Worf said that the ship was armed with lasers (and I don't recall what else) and wasn't a threat.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:09 am
by Corbomite_Ray
Star Wars lasers aren't at all like Earth lasers. Totally different. Read The New Essential Guide to Weapons & Technology and the Incredible Cross-Sections books for Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:09 am
by Majestic
Hellkite wrote:Oh god not again :roll:

this a topic that should be avioded at all cost for it leads dark hateful places

just as the topics of Relgion and politics
I agree, the famous ST Vs SW debate. Not again. :roll: *sighs*

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:20 am
by JPKTrekker
Majestic wrote:
Hellkite wrote:Oh god not again :roll:

this a topic that should be avioded at all cost for it leads dark hateful places

just as the topics of Relgion and politics
I agree, the famous ST Vs SW debate. Not again. :roll: *sighs*
I have no intention of starting a which is better debate. I merely wanted to understand the technological aspects of what would happen if a ship from any sci-fi universe went up against another. I have seen several sites that gauge the exact offense and defense capabilities of ships and weapons in Babylon 5, Star Trek, Star Wars, and others (if anyone has any links to a site like that, please post them). Using math, I would like to know if the calculated output of a Star Wars turbolaser could overload the calculated capacity of Star Trek shields.

However, if you guys think it best, I will ask that this thread be locked if you ask it.

I have no intention of starting a "which is better debate" or causing a flame war. I only wanted a serious discussion.

Here is a link to a site that has essays that calculate the power of Babylon 5 weapons, propulsion, and by using screen captures, science, and math.
http://www.b5tech.com/science/essays.htm

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:49 am
by Harrie
All i have to say is, go read 'The Portal' at http://www.ditl.org/, its under recreation on the blue bar at the bottom.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:53 am
by Majestic
JPKTrekker wrote:
Majestic wrote:
Hellkite wrote:Oh god not again :roll:

this a topic that should be avioded at all cost for it leads dark hateful places

just as the topics of Relgion and politics
I agree, the famous ST Vs SW debate. Not again. :roll: *sighs*
I have no intention of starting a which is better debate. I merely wanted to understand the technological aspects of what would happen if a ship from any sci-fi universe went up against another. I have seen several sites that gauge the exact offense and defense capabilities of ships and weapons in Babylon 5, Star Trek, Star Wars, and others (if anyone has any links to a site like that, please post them). Using math, I would like to know if the calculated output of a Star Wars turbolaser could overload the calculated capacity of Star Trek shields.

However, if you guys think it best, I will ask that this thread be locked if you ask it.

I have no intention of starting a "which is better debate" or causing a flame war. I only wanted a serious discussion.

Here is a link to a site that has essays that calculate the power of Babylon 5 weapons, propulsion, and by using screen captures, science, and math.
http://www.b5tech.com/science/essays.htm
I am aware of this Trekker. You are not one to start fights. I am just a little tired, espically because of what I did to the Frontiers RPG, which was not intent. I place the blame of what happened squarely on me. I can not appoligise enough for what happened.


I am thinking of not coming back for several weeks/months and let this settle down without me hanging around causing more problems.



*Back on topic*



I like both series/movies sci-fi shows as well as B5. I actually like B5 more, because of the feeling and drama that it portrays, the last episode of S5 the most.

Good luck with the thread, its an interesting idea. I just hope that people don't turn you thread into a ST vs SW which is batter war.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:56 am
by JPKTrekker
Agreed, Majestic. If that happens, I have every intention of having this thread locked by one of the admins as quickly as they can. However, I hope that won't need to be done.

However, Majestic, you are the only one who blames you for the R.P.G. troubles. I certainly don't and I am pretty sure that the others don't also. Also, if you have any trouble with the separate R.P.G. you are planning to start with the Midway, I would be glad to help in any way that I can.