Money does not exist in Star Trek, So how do they...?

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Money does not exist in Star Trek, So how do they...?

Post by CaptSyf » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:50 pm

I was just watching Star Trek: First Contact, and I just wanted to point out this.

Picard says "Money does not exist in the 24th century". Now I just wanted to point this out, since there is so much debate about it. So, I figured that it's time for another good old debate.

So, the title is the question.

Money does not exist in Star Trek, So how do they...?

1.) Own a house.
2.) Decide what college one goes to.
3.) Keep the work force content.

Also, any other questions related. Feel free to add to this, and to offer your views of how such a system would work.
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Re: Money does not exist in Star Trek, So how do they...?

Post by Elrond » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:46 am

CaptSyf wrote:I was just watching Star Trek: First Contact, and I just wanted to point out this.

Picard says "Money does not exist in the 24th century". Now I just wanted to point this out, since there is so much debate about it. So, I figured that it's time for another good old debate.

So, the title is the question.

Money does not exist in Star Trek, So how do they...?

1.) Own a house.
2.) Decide what college one goes to.
3.) Keep the work force content.

Also, any other questions related. Feel free to add to this, and to offer your views of how such a system would work.

There is apparently some sort of trade. Most shipyards in Starfleet are in fact contracted by corporations that exist on Earth and other worlds that must somehow order resources for things. Of course, the process from changing raw materials to starships and parts has been extremely simplified with the technologies of that time.

The way I see it is that raw resources are transported via cargo ships (like tractor trailor trucks carry materials) except at the shipyards these resources are thrown directly into starship parts and materials - so perhaps there is no contracting of making components - they are perhaps just made right in the shipyard. But I would think that some things have to be carried to the shipyard that don't involve the basic raw resources. Those have to be obtained through some sort of trade.

Dilithium, tritanium, duranium, deuterium, etc - all those materials perhaps are used for trade. There are probably a heck of a lot of cargo ships for every regular combat vessel. I'm quite certain that some sort of trade is commenced within those transactions.

However, one thing that doesn't exist in humanity is the strive to advance one's wealth - trade exists in some form or another I'm certain, but the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force. Starfleet Academy teaches many things, one of them is duty - and duty comes before personal acquisition of wealth or anything like that. Perhaps this sunk into humanity by that point. I'm not quite sure though.
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Post by jolt » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:16 pm

By the job one choses, remember, not everyone will jump for the same boat, so with that in mind, that is where people will chose for college/university/education etc.

For chosing a house, that is a perculiar one, maybe due to the rise of population, heirs would inherit past family houses or if you were an officer in Starfleet, you would be provided by a job in that sense. However, it is silly to say that there is no money. Earth might not have money, but other places will additionally, what if you wanted some coffee, that costs replicator resources, someone has to manage everything, so where do they get their money from?

You see, its kinda a vicious circle, so, good luck finding the start point :D
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Post by Twitch » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:48 pm

That's always been greatly ambigious. There may not be cash money as such but things are given value as seen with latinum and other trading various Enterprise crews have done over the years with alien races. Bartering is as old as humankind and that's not likely to significantly change.

On ST they're trading something for something whether it's obvious or not.
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Post by CaptSyf » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:24 pm

Personally, I have a problem imagining a world woithout a form of money. I mean sure, the greater good is always a noble thought. But over the years, I have come to figure certain things just can't be. I mean, sure the majority of man may get past the idealisms of seflishness, greed, lust, and over all some form of self centered power. I think for a small group, like true scientists and such, the need for money is eliminated if all desirable resources are readily available. But, there will always be those that must have money. Cold, Hard, Cash, and nothing else will do. After all, people enjoy having the ability to walk into a store, see something they like, and buy it. I don't see how that can change. Not now, not ever.

But, there's no harm in debating how this could be, or not be possible.

I personally think that Star Wars is the more realistic version of the future, at least in that sense. A universally accecpted money system, like gold, diamonds, solid metal coins (the way the world used to be infact). I can see gold as a basic form of money. Have a scale system that it doesn't matter where the gold came from, just put it in the hopper, and it is weighed and measured (and scanned for non-gold materials).

Now with that in mind, most people in the USA don't realise this, but it is illegal to have more gold than 20% of your total assets in it. So in order for a system like that to take hold, one would have to change laws here on earth, before mak could join a galactic union of any kind.
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Post by blindeye01 » Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:59 pm

Kirk also mentioned no money in ST 4, but how do you get things like antique glasses or order alcohol like blood wine or smuggle Romulan Ale?
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Post by icewolf132 » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:52 pm

blindeye01 wrote:Kirk also mentioned no money in ST 4, but how do you get things like antique glasses or order alcohol like blood wine or smuggle Romulan Ale?
I think by 1 of 2 ways; 1. trade something for it or 2. steal it :lol:. or maybe they're going by a rank system; like if you're a Captain you can get this, this, and this, but not that

If a form of curency was used by the UFP im pretty sure that they, if it is a solid form of curency (such as coins instead of credits) would go to great lengths to make sure that it could not be replicated. if everyone could replicate their own curency what use is curency if you don't have something to back it up with?
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Post by Scott_The_Moder » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:31 am

I don't know the complete inerworkings of the universe of startrek but i believe, the federation as a whole has trade only, which means you can trade something for something else or if people want to get rid of stuff they don't just sell it they give it away, first come first get kinda thing.

But out side of the federation there are races that they trade with, ferangi come to mind. They use latinum as currency(i guess its not replicatable) to trade and buy/sell with other people, and to think greed is gone isn't right, there are still factions or people obessed with gaining latinum...

As for who picks jobs, i don't know, i mean not many people are going to volunteer to scrub dirty pipes, or clean up when the captains sick. And unlike starwars the only real AI is data and theres only 1(2 if you count his brother) housing is easy, each house is either inhereted or is created personally for each person, the trade system is for the federation to get resources they need in exchange for extra reasources they have.

Now if thats wrong in anyway point it out, but from watching all the various shows thats what i gather...

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Post by Twitch » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:02 am

Well, as I said it's barter. They trade. The writers invented latinum to cover the aspect of deals that require a cash-type marker with universally recognized value.

What I can totally see is the future non-use of cash currency. Store chains are now beginning to use fingerprint-based payment/debit systems. Yes, you get signed up and put your finger on the machine and tell it what/where account in what financial institution you want to pay with and after that you never ever have to do anything more than place your finger on the scanner. You need NO other form of I.D. or credit/debit card.

Think about it when it spreads as far as ATM/debit terminals are now. You go to the stinkin 7-11 and buy a coke with your finger, groceries at the supermarket or ANYTHING up to the limit of your credit limit- a used car if you want.

So all ST is promoting is the expansion of the credit/debit form of transactions. In ST it's just a form of units of credit perhaps different than "dollars" or "yen" or "francs" but legal units of measure nonetheless.
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Post by blindeye01 » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:35 pm

If its based by rank than you have the communist party in a nutshell.
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Post by Twitch » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:38 am

Beyond the currency issue has always been the thing about people doing jobs. Picard once said how people basically do what they want to do as far as jobs go. So how does someone who sees themself as an artist but has no talent survive producing crappy work? Does a benevolent Big Brother keep him on the dole in some worldwide welfare plot?
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Post by blindeye01 » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:34 pm

its socialist from what we are concluding.
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Post by Numbazix » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:34 am

The entire premis is flawed, however we are told repeatedly that, "...mankind has worked out these problems...". Of course, as the saying goes, your credit is no good here could be a problem for the Feddies when outside Fed territory. Trade of latinum, antiquitities, etc is often refered to and money is sure to exist on other worlds. Barter is the oldest form of commerce and I'm certain that would do when a ten dollar bill isn't available.
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Post by Twitch » Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:04 pm

Yes, the "we've worked that out" is a where the script writers made it vague since they didn't care to explain a long convoluted storyline or just had no idea so made it ambiguous. It's kind of like saying "OK, pretend they worked it all out."
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Post by imagin » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:40 pm

From what the shows describe: Everything is free in the 24th century.

They suposibly removed "want" (wich totaly goes agenst human nature)

Also star trek says that people work to better them selves (wich also goes agenst human nature)

so in all. It is a nobel sentament, but quite unrealistic.

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