Why was the Constitution decommissioned....

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Neil
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Why was the Constitution decommissioned....

Post by Neil » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:53 pm

....over 80 years before the Miranda and the Oberth? The Oberth was in service before the Constitution, seeing as the USS Grissom's registry was NCC-698 and the USS Constitution was NCC-1700. The Miranda was in service around about the same time as the Constitution as well. Yet both are still in service in the 2370s when the Constitution was being decommissioned as of 2293 and probably completed the decommissioning process by 2400. So why would this be?
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Post by rodglas » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:23 pm

Well there are two answers.

1. It was easier during TNG to use models already built. The Constitution was to reckognizable as "The Starship Enterprise" and so was never used.

2. The in universe explaination is that unlike the Miranda, Oberth and even the Excelsior classed the Constitution design was one of the most heavily used ships in the Federation. They preformed every mission in a era when they were the first true multipurpose largescale starships in the Starfleet. By the time the Excelsior entered service starfleet had many ship filling this role.

In other words they ran the Connies into the ground.

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Post by CaptSyf » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:14 pm

Actually the Conny was still in service up through DS9. During TNG, it can be seen in the episode with the borg attack in Wolf 359. Also, you can make out a Conny in one of the Fleet scenes in DS9 when they abandoned DS9 during the Dominion war.

Also you have to remember that the Conny is a very old class, outdatingmost other ship classes. The Miranda and Oberth came after the Conny by over 25 years. And even those two classes were reduced to secondary fleet roles by 2366, such as supply ships. It is reasonable to say that there were connies running around still, but they were put at the back of the lines, doing only light duty tasks.
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Post by Zered003 » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:28 pm

The Connie with refits would stay a very useful ship. I think you don't see them as often b/c they stopped producing them. Then add in the factor that ships are detroyed all the time. I am sure if any constitution class starships were put in ship graveyards. They would have ben pulled out and refitted for use b/c of the lack of available starships. They are where saying back in TNG that they had to pull ships out of moth balls to keep the fleet up. And that was just after the first Borg attack.
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Post by CaptSyf » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:12 pm

Well, if you look here http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schem ... ships1.htm (scroll down to the conny section), it tells you a bit of what is known about the conny.
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Post by Neil » Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:34 am

The one thing about the Oberth is that according to registries it was in service before the Constitution. The USS Grissom is NCC-698, the USS Enterprise is NCC-1701. That's a difference of 1,003. That would indicate that even by Star Trek III when we first see the Oberth it is already a relatively old ship.
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Post by Romulan_Fury » Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:30 pm

It is possible that Starfleet hadn't started the practice of placing letters at the end of ship registries that had been used before, and that the Grissom was the second or third ship to bear the name. We didn't see any ship with a registry suffix until Star Trek IV when they unveiled the Enterprise-A at the end.
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Post by Neil » Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:52 pm

In fairness the Enterpise is the only ship known to bear a letter at the end of the registration. At the battle of Wolf 359 there were two USS Melbourne's. One was an Excelsior class about to be decommissioned and the other was her Nebula class replacement. Both had totally different registries. Similarly the Intrepid class USS Intrepid doesn't have the same registry as the Excelsior class USS Intrepid she replaced. Therefore I can only assume that the Grissom is an older ship than the original Enterprise.
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Post by rodglas » Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:30 pm

Enterpirse was a landmark ship, the most famous in starfleet. Under Kirk they contacted more new worlds and explored more space then any other ship before it.

It was a special honour bestowed that all ships named Enterprise would be bare the registry of the first Federation Starship to be so named.

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Post by Romulan_Fury » Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:30 am

Remember the Constellation from "The Doomsday Machine"? Its registry was 1017 which meant that it would be a great deal older than the Original Enterprise. That seems hardly likely as the Constitution was the flagship class of the 23rd century; it had the latest technology and was the most advanced. Not until the Excelsior was there a better ship. According to Star Trek Lore, the Enterprise had already been on several five year missions (first under Captain April, then Pike) before Kirk took command, meaning that the Enterprise was no spring chicken. Now if the Constellation was 700 ships infront of the Enterprise, then that means the Constitution class had been around for a great deal of time indeed. To think that Starfleet had come to a virtual standstill in technology for so long is absurd.

Oh well, you probably can't make much sense of the registry numbers anyway. You do realize that these numbers are quite meaningless in the end because they were arbitrarily picked by whomever was writing the script and/or making the models.
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Post by CaptSyf » Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:10 am

That's exactly what happens with registry numbers. Just because an Oberth class bares a smaller registry than the Enterprise, doesn't make it older than the Class.

Also, here's something to think about. Registry Grouping. NCC 01 through NCC 999 reserved for one role of the fleet, then NCC 1000 through NCC 5000 reserved for heavy capitol ships. That's Just an example however. I'm sure if thats how starfleet does it, then TOS Era, TMP Era, and TNG Era are all different. Just like the warp speed calculation chart was changed during the time between TOS and TNG. However, since Kirk made a lot of historical important milestones for the Federation ( and was an admiral at one point, maybe he had a hand in it too), that Starfleet awarded the Registry as a permanently set registry.

However, all this registry talk is non-canon, untill you see it on the screen in offical format.

But back to the original topic, I don't think the Conny was ever 100% retired.
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Post by M514R » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:49 pm

legaly they probibly couldn't due to legal reasons
the gate in SG1 is different than the movie due to legal reasons
or Kirk ran them all in to the ground like rodglas said
definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and over and over

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Post by imagin » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:31 pm

Mabey they got rid of it because it was errrr ummmmm small? :?

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Post by SherlockHolmes » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:34 pm

Well actually, most Mirandas were doing secondary work, until the dominion war where a lot of ships were pulled out of mothballs. If things kept getting bad, we would have seen the Enterprise A defending Earth. The Registries dont really mean jack. The Oberth is obviosly a newer starship. Also, maybe the Conny's had a shorter Hull lifespan than the Mirandas, Oberths, and Excelsiors. On contrary to commander of starfleet's dialogue in STIII, the starship Enterprise was launched in 2246. And was twice as old as the dialogue suggested.

I dont really buy that legal excuse, although it is probably true. We saw the Galaxy class plenty of times in DS9. We even saw the Intrepid Once.

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Post by rodglas » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:31 pm

M514R wrote:legaly they probibly couldn't due to legal reasons
the gate in SG1 is different than the movie due to legal reasons
or Kirk ran them all in to the ground like rodglas said
I doubt legal reasons had anything to do with it. All of Treks Rights are held by one company, even TOS.

Even Stargates rights are held by MGM, possibly any changes wer made to appease the writers of the movie who were not in favour of the series. Trek did not have this problem.

Rod

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