American beheaded in Iraq

This room is for pic or comments that might offend other & younger viewers. Making fun of companys or people is allowed as long as it not a member of this community. ENTER ROOM AT OWN RISK!!!! You have been warned.

Moderators: MrVulcan, thunderchero

Twitch
Commander
Commander
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:00 am
Location: L.A. CA USA

Post by Twitch » Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:45 am

BTW guys, Hitler declared war on the US as soon as we declared war on Japan after Pearl Harbor. As far as Hussein goes, he was just getting started with his Final Solution. ONLY a few hundred thousand folks were eradicated so perhaps we should have waited for it to get into the millions before jumping in.

As we approach the 60th anniversary of D-Day remember that the invasion was not guaranteed successful. Had the Allies failed it would have taken another year to regroup and re-strategize. By then Germany would have had many more advanced weapons at hand. Who can say they wouldn't have gotten the A bomb figured out by 1946? They gave the go ahead for the delivery system in late 1944, the Ho 18 "Amerika Bomber."

I love the Isreali point of view. Forget the dicking around with diplomacy when there's a threat- act. The 1976 attack on Saddam's nuke facility was because it was being built for one thing- weapons, not soft white bulbs in every tent.

Harrie
Commander
Commander
Posts: 1382
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Defending Antioch from the Sassanid Empire
Contact:

Post by Harrie » Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:20 am

Many of the people I know wanted to just nuke Iraq and go on living but we all know that international politics wouldn't allow that to happen. You have to admit that it would save us the trouble of sending all these troops in. Another thought is that if Bush senior had removed Saddam back in the 90's most of this would have never happened and Iraq wouldn't threaten to become the next Vietnam, because most of us (I hope) know that to plan to reinstate the draft is well underway, some states have even selected draft boards already.
The Roman Empire did not create prosperity and come to be feared by having meetings and doing paperwork; they did this by killing all who opposed them.

Twitch
Commander
Commander
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:00 am
Location: L.A. CA USA

Post by Twitch » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:44 am

Back in '91 when Schwartzkoph was 100 miles outside Badgag with the most potent armored force ever assembled I knew he wanted to go in. I knew he knew it was the proper military decision. But this coalition business was as touchy as giving all the Allies some part in D-Day for Eisenhower. Make everybody happy, right? Who is happy now?

That poop about "we accomplished the goals we set" back then was silly. Combat is a fluid situation that demands changes and adaptation to tactics and strategy at all times. As situations are re-assessed strategy and tactics must changes to suit the situation.

Since he retired Gen. Schwartzkoph has stated that we should have gone on to Badgag. The situation that was created was as if The Russions had stopped at Germany's eastern border and the Brits and Amis had stopped on the west to leave Hitler intact though stripped of his plundered territories.
Would that have made sense?

User avatar
Elrond
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 2:00 am
Location: Murika!

Post by Elrond » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:05 pm

Yep - forget the diplomacy - priority 001 is defense! Could not support the Israeli point of view more! Imagine if Starfleet found out that the Klingons disbanned from the Khitomer Accord and went against the Federation in an all-out war that destroyed everything Undiscovered Country created! Would the president want to try to make a truce with the approaching Klingon fleet, who obviously aren't going to turn back, or would he order all Starfleet Generals and Admirals to assemble their defenses and fleets?! Even if there were only like two Negh'Vars and three Vor'cha ships in the Klingon fleet, it would still be enough to do at least sizable damage - risking a delay in the fleet's defenses would be costly. Besides, the enemy fleet may not be going after Earth but instead another Federation interest - that's a situation that could cost a lot of lives if a fleet isn't prepared to meet the enemy!
The same here, though the danger doesn't appear all that bad to our own nation, it is there. We are at war with the terrorists and terror-supporting territories and nations - not a cold war where diplomacy can solve everything (in other words, the "Mr. Krushchev, back down" type of line wouldn't work). Only actions can speak loud enough to even begin to deter these threats. And if it means that the U.S. is out to kick some butt, then so what, at least we're kicking butt in order to prevent the deaths of more people. We lose less if we act than if we don't. That's basically the way it goes in these times. Whether it sounds politically correct or 'humanitarian' or not, what needs to be done is what is at stake - not who looks good in the end. War is a kill or be killed aspect of life - it sucks and it makes everyone involved look bad, but it's something that must be dealt with for better or for worse.

Good line, Twitch:
{ Forget the dicking around with diplomacy when there's a threat- act. }

Wok
Cadet 2nd Year
Cadet 2nd Year
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:00 am
Contact:

Post by Wok » Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:46 pm

Argh. So much faulty knowledge of history.

What goes around comes around I suppose... ...like I already said. The USA will be dead within awhile if it continues like this.

Twitch
Commander
Commander
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:00 am
Location: L.A. CA USA

Post by Twitch » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:51 am

And just what has someone stated here that you assume to be faulty? "The USA will be dead in awhile if it continues like this." If WHAT continues like this?

Wok
Cadet 2nd Year
Cadet 2nd Year
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:00 am
Contact:

Post by Wok » Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:48 am

Apology.

Also, I do not 'assume' things to be less accurate. I would only say 'faulty' if I knew enough to decide that it actually is less accurate than what is the 'truth'. If I know a fact FOR CERTAIN, then other things are compritivly 'faulty', you see.

(Too many apostrophy things... I know, I know.)

USA might not exist as a nation in awhile. It could die. I dislike predicting the future, but... what exactly is the US Govenment doing to protect itself from the ecological dangers? Are people even aware? Do they give a ****?

(Then you have the problem of fuel consumption...)
As far as Hussein goes, he was just getting started with his Final Solution. ONLY a few hundred thousand folks were eradicated so perhaps we should have waited for it to get into the millions before jumping in.
We are at war with the terrorists and terror-supporting territories and nations - not a cold war where diplomacy can solve everything
Thats faulty for you. I say faulty not as an insult, its just that I believe it differs from the more accurate things I know of.

Twitch
Commander
Commander
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:00 am
Location: L.A. CA USA

Post by Twitch » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:52 am

So the video of the nerve-gassed Kurds was fake and no one was raped and tortured in the Iraqi prisons and the mass graves unearthed were not real and the fact that the ex-head of the Iraqi nuclear program is lying when he states that Hussein had one goal in mind- weapons?

Hey bud, EVERY country will cease to exist given enough time. If you wish to be a doomsayer and fret about fuel and eco-solutions you must acknowledge that humankind has always adapted to changing natural environments and resources otherwise we would not be here today. Human intelligence has always been resilient enough to modify its world whether it was creating better stone tools or building cities.

No offense taken on saying we are "faulty" but if you have some inside information that is "accurate" don't you think the world would benefit by that knowledge? You are simply stating an obscure point of view that everyone else is wrong but are not coroborating exactly what your points are nor are you substantiating them with facts.

Wok
Cadet 2nd Year
Cadet 2nd Year
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:00 am
Contact:

Post by Wok » Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:34 pm

So the video of the nerve-gassed Kurds was fake and no one was raped and tortured in the Iraqi prisons and the mass graves unearthed were not real and the fact that the ex-head of the Iraqi nuclear program is lying when he states that Hussein had one goal in mind- weapons?
All of that is true. The claim of genocide is not.
If you wish to be a doomsayer and fret about fuel and eco-solutions you must acknowledge that humankind has always adapted to changing natural environments and resources otherwise we would not be here today. Human intelligence has always been resilient enough to modify its world whether it was creating better stone tools or building cities.
Do not throw mud at me, it ain't gonna stick. Doomsayer... christ. I won't be laughing when your country crumbles, but I say - 'If only they woulda listened...'

They have not 'adapted' they have died. Name one advanced civilization thats around today... Humans modifying? ONLY if you look at the last, say, century. Its not being modifyed, the world is being sucked dry of the resources we can use. Polluted alot too.

But todays world is alot different, with space travel, nukes, and genetic manipulation et al. We can actually change because have the 'intelligence' and technology and stuff.

I do not want to see millions more people die, because a bunch of idiots are not going to bother about all the eco-stuff. Don't trivialize it either.

ITS ENTROPY!

No offense taken on saying we are "faulty" but if you have some inside information that is "accurate" don't you think the world would benefit by that knowledge?
Heh. I'll ignore the inside info comment... so lets just say, I want, um, truth.
You are simply stating an obscure point of view that everyone else is wrong but are not coroborating exactly what your points are nor are you substantiating them with facts.
Facts smacts. Anyone can throw facts at people, and I will never change your opinion with facts. Or will I?

I'm not saying 'everyone apart from me is wrong'.

What I AM saying, is that on SOME issues I seem to have a more accurate knowledge than thou. Call that arrogent if you will, but that just makes you step further away from the truth, facts, reality, whatever you want to call it.

But you want some sort of unproven proof, do you not?

Ok.
We are at war with the terrorists and terror-supporting territories and nations
By this logic, the US is at war with itself. - Iran-contra, Pinochet, Nicaragua. Uzbekistan, Mujahadeen/Taliban (Fundamental Islam).

Therefore the US supports Terrorism. In its own interest of course...

HYPOCRIcy!

... The USA is an has been the biggest terror supporter. KPR, China and Israel supports terror too.


This phoney War On Terror is ENTROPY. You need energy. War for energy. Control the world, Control the people. Run out, US civilization dies. Fuel doesn't last forever. Other people will live on. Why? Because the Third-world does use as much as you.

Twitch
Commander
Commander
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:00 am
Location: L.A. CA USA

Post by Twitch » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:58 am

Well I never used the "genocide" phrase. I simply stated that a few hundred thousand Iraqis were killed at the behest of the Hussein regime. I don't think they were actually favoring the eradication of Kurds in particular, simply all those that opposed the dogma of Hussein. This is not the 1st time this has happened since Hitler. Unfortunately other totalitariam regimes in Africa and South America have followed suit by making hundreds of thouusands "disappear."

Here is a guy on a Star Trek forum that obviously gets some entertainment and hope as we all do that the future can be better. This is what ST symbolizes. Yet you desire to take some glee in the hopes that you will outlive the sovereignty of the US so that you can be quoted as saying "I told you so."

You say humans "have not adapted they have died." If they had not adapted we would not be here as the species would have become extinct. Hominids have adapted to global climate changes, ebb and flow of animal herds and all the rest of the things that have sparked invention and adaptation.

Ancient cultures had in fact less awareness of ecology than we do today. They harvested their natural resources beyond their ability to rebound in many instances. But the learned. How you can imagine "US civilization dies," is bizarre. Are not India, Greece, China, Egypt and most of the ancient powers of culture and civilization still around?

All ancient civilizations have traded with neighboring ones for the goods their area did not have. If Japan purchases wood from South America are they contributing to deforestation? If Brazil purchases autos from Japan are they not contributing to air pollution? Was this begun with one coastal tribe trading sea shell necklaces to an mountain tribe for obsidian ones?

Yet today emerging economies such as those in Brazil, China, Africa and others are consuming natural resources at an increasing rate as they become agrarian and industrialized at an escalatiing rate. Why no wrath directed at them?

"But todays world is alot different, with space travel, nukes, and genetic manipulation et al. We can actually change because have the 'intelligence' and technology and stuff."

And who pioneered all those things? The knee-jerk response is "the evil Americans." But it was HUMANS. When scientific and technological mass of knowledge is at hand to flourish the answers lead one way to any learned inventor of any nationality. If the US had not developed those thing you speak of certainly some other nation or consortium would have.

If the Ionian philosophy on views of science had continued unhindered we humans would probably be finishing the exploration of our solar system about now. But no, other factions long before the US existed set that culture back. So Greece is not the center of philosophy and science it once was. It is a bankrupt philosophy to project modern-day values to history. Let's all get pissed off about Great Britain's Imperial Empire's transgressions while we are at it.

Has the US supported terrorism in any way in the past? Certainly. Have other nations? Yes. But this militant islamic rhetoric states that it wants to destroy the entire Western civilization so that the world returns to a time of 1,000 years ago when islam was the big cheese.

Most Americans respect everyones point of view, as do I. Since we do not know what country you hail from we rest assured that you do not long for the return of feudelism, no electricity, few books, and all the quaintness of 1,000 years ago unless you're from an islamic region.

And most assuredly, where ever you come from, your country's forefathers have done things that others in the world have not agreed with. Wasn't it that wacky Jew, Jesus, who said "all ye without sin, cast the 1st stone?"

Wok
Cadet 2nd Year
Cadet 2nd Year
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:00 am
Contact:

Post by Wok » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:40 am

Final Solution
Well I never used the "genocide" phrase
Same thing...
I don't think they were actually favoring the eradication of Kurds in particular, simply all those that opposed the dogma of Hussein.
That was my point, too.
Here is a guy on a Star Trek forum that obviously gets some entertainment and hope as we all do that the future can be better. This is what ST symbolizes. Yet you desire to take some glee in the hopes that you will outlive the sovereignty of the US so that you can be quoted as saying "I told you so."
I have (Wrongfully?) interpreted this as a pointless personal attack.
You say humans "have not adapted they have died." If they had not adapted we would not be here as the species would have become extinct. Hominids have adapted to global climate changes, ebb and flow of animal herds and all the rest of the things that have sparked invention and adaptation.
You did not imply species. And they won't adapt to having no electric or water... and what about severe climate change?

(Don't bother slagging me off for that last comment... please?)


Are not India, Greece, China, Egypt and most of the ancient powers of culture and civilization still around?
No. Egyptians and th Egypt civilization are different things.

All ancient civilizations have traded with neighboring ones for the goods their area did not have. If Japan purchases wood from South America are they contributing to deforestation?
Well, yeah. But this is straying abit. There is a world-concensus about needing to find alternate sources and limit greenhouse emmission.

Or there would be if the US joins in. *hint-hint*
If Brazil purchases autos from Japan are they not contributing to air pollution? Was this begun with one coastal tribe trading sea shell necklaces to an mountain tribe for obsidian ones?
Tribes trading is differen from global warming.

And who pioneered all those things? The knee-jerk response is "the evil Americans." But it was HUMANS. When scientific and technological mass of knowledge is at hand to flourish the answers lead one way to any learned inventor of any nationality. If the US had not developed those thing you speak of certainly some other nation or consortium would have.

Stop labelling me as anti-American. When did I say genetic stuff was bad?

Yet today emerging economies such as those in Brazil, China, Africa and others are consuming natural resources at an increasing rate as they become agrarian and industrialized at an escalatiing rate. Why no wrath directed at them?
Arghhhh. If the US government agrees to theKyoto stuff etc the other countries are going to follow suit. If the USA could act as a force for progress more often it would be good.

My 'wrath' is directed at bush administration and co... ok?!!
Let's all get pissed off about Great Britain's Imperial Empire's transgressions while we are at it.
Stupid imperial racist bastards!
Most Americans respect everyones point of view, as do I. Since we do not know what country you hail from we rest assured that you do not long for the return of feudelism, no electricity, few books, and all the quaintness of 1,000 years ago unless you're from an islamic region.

And most assuredly, where ever you come from, your country's forefathers have done things that others in the world have not agreed with. Wasn't it that wacky Jew, Jesus, who said "all ye without sin, cast the 1st stone?"
Of course everyone has there major problems and horrible stuff and mistakes and... aload of other crappidje which I despise. Just because other countries HAVE done it, doesn't mean USA has a jutification to. Not that I'm saying that is what you imply or anything though...

And I am from the UK. So feel free to use that against me, lol.

I am only focusing on the US here because... they have the power. Pah, believe me, I get aggitated alot when some foolish lefty is US-bashing (NOT WHAT I AM DOING) but doesn't care about the really *expletive* dictators and people.

Kim-Jong Il (KPR), Chavez (Venezuala), Kadyrov (Chechnya), Castro (Cuba). And the Uzbek one.


...Ugh, I forget where I am... such long posts...

User avatar
Elrond
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 2:00 am
Location: Murika!

Post by Elrond » Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:02 am

Yep - it's always a great thing to hope for the future, for the best, and expect perhaps the worst. Right on! Many do the opposite - they believe human civilization will cease to exist if we do one thing wrong. The environment may have its problems - I know because I've seen the facts on that - it's an environmental trend, like any other. These trends change over time and in a way, it appears that we are actually in a cooling trend, the 1980's to 1990's being the warming trend era. The environment has its troubles, but it is no doubt that defense is a priority that cannot be undermined by much else. Survival is at the top of Maslov's Hierarchy of human needs - safety is the stone that supports that survival.
We must work toward the cleanliness and safety of the environment as well, but we must do so while defending ourselves from other humans as well. I would agree that defending ourselves against microscopic air pollution and disease is a big priority as well, but another priority is the defense of all life - including our own lives. America has it so great, it doesn't know how great it has it. 700 years ago, the richest Kings of Europe were (since it was the dark ages) sleeping on floors and they had lice and even flees! And these were the richest Kings of the world? I wonder how it was for the middle and poor classes! Well, the point was, they had it terrible.
We live in a nation that was founded not under feudelism but instead under freedom. It is this freedom that other countries like to put us down - they view the United States as we view Beverly Hills - they think of us as being materialistic and uncaring of others' needs. If that were really the truth, the United States would not be trying to give sovereignty to the Iraqi people. We are doing this for them because no one else would at first. Now we have several nations helping us - those that can and will. If we got where we are as a nation through independence and civil war, then I would really hope that this isn't the beginning of the end of our nation, and I could never begin to believe that it is the end even if that end was probable. In other words, giving up hope because of what someone thinks of one president and his administration is just not very logical. The whole world's confused and depressed - our world is sort of in the adolescent stage of civilization - trying to understand who it is and what it is - generally a bad time, but one that our race will get through. And it is possible that we may fail as a race, but meanwhile America must be optimistic - mankind must be optimistic - or else the time that we have on Earth will be dismal with grief, which is the greatest disease on Earth. Grief causes fear, fear causes anger, anger causes the violence we see in terrorism, violence causes suffering, suffering and seeing suffering causes more grief. It is a cycle we must all be rid of. Sure, we can forsee doom all we want - the truth is that the end of the world is when we die. Death is the same anyway it happens - that is after it is done. And we can forsee death as much as we may want, but that just causes grief and so on. Sure, optimism does not mean we will win - optimism does not mean eliminating violence and suffering, but it does mean for a better life for those with optimism. And it is easier to give in to grief than the acceptance that comes with optimism. We fight for the good things in life and we accept what we cannot change.
I feel like there is no hope once in a while, but that passes like everything. You are absolutely right about what Star Trek symbolizes - hope. I am an American and I value all opinions, though some issues I feel strongly about, I always value the opinions of all, as long as it isn't the opinion of someone who wishes to kill the innocent - luckly there are far fewer people who are demented into killing the innocent. But it is a rule of life - there will always be someone out there who wants to eliminate your say - someone who may want to eliminate you. At this time, that entity is terrorism and the torture of the innocent. For at least six months, I couldn't believe that the two towers were destroyed until I finally saw it for myself - it filled me with a feeling of biblical hopelessness. But in the back of my mind, I remained hopeful that things had to get better.
About the ecology of the Earth - it is something that we have become aware of and as Twitch said, it is something we know more about now more than ever. I feel the government is doing what they can that is humanly possible given the circumstances to provide America, its allies, and the innocent citizens of other nations, with the best possible aide. Things will go wrong as they are constantly, but things are also going right. The image of what goes wrong is the image that is emphasized by some media companies and other levels of information transmitting. The image of what is going well is not the image we see very often if ever. First it was the beheading of the soldier in Iraq and then the public embarrassment photo the government meant for the public not to see. We weren't meant to see it for the fact that there are some out there that want to find more reasons to change our nation's priorities! No matter how cliche this sounds, America must stand strong and stay determined through the greatest of enemies and the worst of scenarios.
America may fall one day in the next 700 years or in the next 3000 years - we don't know that. But if humanity survives through this century, then America will as well - with my optimism I guarantee that to be the truth. And if we make it through this century, that will be one good step in the right direction. And if some of us live long enough to see it, we may get to see the dawn of the warp drive age, if the universe will allow it. People will die and things will have their ups and downs.
America may fall one day, civilization may fall one day, Earth, by the findings of science, will also one day fall. It is the way of things. We are all mortal and we will all die - that is terrifying to me. But most people, including myself, tend not to think on that matter very much. In the same way, we as humans must not be forced to forsee or think about how or why our race may fall. I hope this is not true, but there may be another World War one day. Things may get so bad that we could not imagine it now. But that will pass as well. Life will go on as it has for many ages, though diminished for some time. We may get scared and we may think that we are living in a dark hour, but that shadow is a passing thing. If the world was plunged into nuclear war, many would indeed lose their lives. But for those who live, life goes on. As long as that life goes on and it is threatened, we can still fight to dissipate the risk of dying. If things get that bad, it may all end - but the situation could still improve.
We may even be at war with ourselves as was said in this thread. That is because there are some people in this nation who are seeing to our division if not our destruction as a nation. America has made mistakes and has dealt with terrorists before, but not all the terrorism in the world is due to America. Most of it is a collection or collections of people who want to leave a legacy behind them (little do they realise that them and their children will be condemned for generations). They live in a world that is centuries old. And that would have been fine, except that they are forcing their ways on others - those who do not accept are those they target for destruction (kinda like the Borg, except the Borg do it for perfection, not for leaving behind a legacy of sin). It is just like bullies in school - they sought attention, even if that attention was negative - they wanted to catch everyones' eyes.
Well, I've said a lot already. I love living in the world of freedom and sovereignty - where if I was not in a land like this, I would not be able to discuss things like this without fearing repercutions. For God and Country, we will stand strong - not just America but humanity especially!

User avatar
Elrond
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 2:00 am
Location: Murika!

Post by Elrond » Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:26 am

Sorry, my last post was supposed to come after Twitch's last response - just to put things into context. It took a while for me to write my long post - oops. Anyway, new response:

Quote:
And I am from the UK. So feel free to use that against me, lol.

No one is labelling anyone as anti-American nor unpatriotic. I don't think anyone would use that against you, but I see by the lol that was just joking.

Wok
Cadet 2nd Year
Cadet 2nd Year
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:00 am
Contact:

Post by Wok » Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:36 pm

Yup.
And now is a... shall I say, 'special time' with more opportunities to help the world, as it is. Like you have said.

But, in some cases, it is more important to understand the world before trying to change it. If you don't the effects can be disastorus. Reagen is a great example of this- Part of his policy worked, other parts did not. These parts ultmatly led to things like Mujahadeen & Osama, which created 9/11.

Of course i'm not saying, THAT is Reagens fault, but the consequences of his actions did help to lead to the grounds which problems like that can happen. At least his heart was in the right place, but I'm never going to trivialise the negative aspects of his presidency... in other words, if he went about with a more precise knowledge of the world than 'my enemies enemy is my friend' alot of people would be better off.

If you are fighting for something, knowing why you are fighting is not enough. And if someone did think it was, then they are fighting a pointless battle.







Now I will shut up before I get my butt whooped in this debate :wink: :?

Twitch
Commander
Commander
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:00 am
Location: L.A. CA USA

Post by Twitch » Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:13 am

My final thoughts- i'm not trying to have the last word here. You guys are some eloquent Mofos! Good on ya! Elrond I see an ex-phsych major. Wok your initial remarks were such as they made one believe that you fervently hoped the US will cease to exist as a country soon. Instead I can relate to your frustration with the current President. But all things such as this as quite transitory and one day in the near future there will be another regime.

We Americans make fun of whoever is President- no political party is spared. It's our way too.

One of my much earlier points was concerning media manipulation. This is a worldwide phenomenon. We are affected by what we take in be it distorted or not. It is one thing to report "There is a big butt fire in, say, Buckingham Palace," accompanied by film footage and fire/rescue effort with attentant interviews with people directing that effort and quite another to editorialize by saying "American forces are bogged down in Iraq," as they initially took all of 2 weeks to take he capitol. This wasn't fast enough for the media we must assume.

Or the term "heavy fighting," used with "Ak-47 and RPG fire." That's not heavy! Heavy is a 3 hour artillery barrage followed by rocket and mortar attack by an enemy armed with armored vehicles, heavy machine guns, bazookas and such. It all becomes sound bites to hook viewers and readers and it's mostly bullshit.

In reality what is going on at anytime anywhere in the world does little to affect people in other countires ot hemispheres. We go to work, we play PC games, watch comedies on TV and go about our daily lives.

Today I have to give blood, replace a carburetor on my daughter's car and install my new DSL equipment. Nothing Blair, Bush or Putin are doing will have any effect on that. What I mentioned about Brazil cutting rain forets trees to sell to Japan and Japan selling hordes of autos that will pollute Barzil's atmosphere is none of my personal business.

I never hear an American griping about leadership of foreign governments yet I often see on forums like these people from other countries haranging about the US. Its usually someone from Finland or Portugal or some where out of mainstream Europe affected by anything American government-related blasting the current Prez and whatnot. How come no Chinese are complaining on the web about American foreign policy or Iranians bitching about trade restrictions. It's always someone from, like, Norway acting as some self-appointed intermediary for the 3rd world. ODn't get it. Don't have time to worry about it.

Being a student of anthropoly and and geology I can say that the earth has gone through natural upheavals that have destroyed air and water quality far greater than anything allegedy done by humans. The ozone layer has been eroded far greater than it is now in the earth's past due to volcanic activity. 95% of all the species that ever lived were extinct befor humankind evolved.

The US has the strictest environmental standards of anywhere. If a cow farts in Nebraska there's an uproar. There actually was a study to see if methane gasses from cow's butts could be eliminated using a butt-attached catylitic converters! Literally if a farmers land gets standing water once in 5 years the EPA can label it "wetlands" and take ownership just because some frigging tadpoles hatch in it. Autos are 98% cleaner than they were 20 years ago and are inspected yearly. Production facilities are monitored all the time for emissions. You can't thow an empty paint can in the trash. It's toxic waste and must taken to a disposal facility. And that's water-based paint! Does some guy in Bulgaria have to do that?

Elrond is right in saying it is relative to what degree we throw money at certain environmental issues while we ignore the many other aspects in the quality of human life. Should an emerging 3rd world economy be burdened by US-style environmental laws? Hell they'd be broke before they started.

Elrond is right about the world seeing the US as we view Beverly Hills- a bunch of rich snobs. Go to Podunk Iowa population 5,000 and meet the real earthy Americans. They'd help a stranger and go out if their way for you. MOST of the US is like this. Urban sprawls like New York are the minority. I've been stuck in a ditch in Arkansas and had complete strangers band together to get a tractor to pull me out. This is commonplace behavior in most of this country. THESE are the people that contribute their hard-earned $$ to relief funds for Chilean earthquake victims or similar calls for aid from the world at large.

It is amazing how each generation thinks it is just the hottest thing there is when we can look back in history and almost laugh at their naivte. Human life is valuable but when a nation has lost the ability to accept casualties of conflict they are in a sorry state. When the Brits fought the Zulu, the Zulu chiefs would send waves of warriors to certain death against the British firing line. Why? Simply to test the firepower of the guns so he could see how many it would take to over run them. How many tens of thousands died like that? For what? But wait. We are attempting to project today's values to a point in history and judge. This is flawed in any case we find.

This monemt in history is a flea on an elephant's butt relative to all things. Who remembers much about Gerald Ford, Breznev, King Faruk or Nehru? Hell, we'd be more productive constructing new maps for Armada than to get excited about things over which we have to immediate control.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users