American beheaded in Iraq

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Wok
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Post by Wok » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:57 pm

Any thoughts?
Many. But I'll just say one about WW3. I doubt it will ever happen, unless its nuclear myself. But all countries from across the spectrum always try to avoid nuclear war. Both China, USA, Russia and Britain all put pressure on the India/Pakistan tensions to ease down, because as you know these two countries (perhaps with Kim-Jong Il as an exception) are most likely to enter a nuke war.

Oh, and a cult is actually a small group of non committed people that share a similar interest; they aren't bound by anything whatsoever, unlike a sect. John Travolta is in this 'Transcendetal Meditation' cult fo example. :P

there will be more people in this country aiming to do the right thing eventually.
Yeah I think most people believe they are doing the right thing. Not that it is. But eventually I don't know. I'm not an optimist, though that doesn't mean I won't try :wink:

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Post by CaptSyf » Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:10 am

That is a understandable perspective(about ww3). I also have some reservations about most nations fearing nuclear war. But unlike many people, I don't by it, that WW3 has to be nuclear. I feel, most countries would refrain from using the device(save for the crazy ones like N.Korea).
Simply because, that would not only kill the enemy, but them and thier allies also. Only with the advent of facing total destruction, or being over-run and conquered, would most nuclear countries use the nuke. But that's how I look at it. Maybe, I could be just kidding myself into believing something to make me sleep a little better each night. Or is it just pure optimisim. Not really sure about that one...lol. But none the less, you make a good point Wok.
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Post by Wok » Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:17 am

heh thanks. Yeah Kim Jong has about three bombs or so I hear. Pakistan gave NK some technology to launch them aswell, which means the issue of building bombs has cropped up in Japan again... as they could build hundreds if they wanted to.

Anyhow, one strange fact is for Iran. Why can't they have nukes for self-defense? Israel has them after all. And before anyone says its because Iran is an oppresive regime, look at Israel. Not exactly a shining beacon of human rights either.
It seems hypocritic to me...

And like you say, Iran wouldn't use them offensivly because of retaliation. Pakistan will only use them as a deterrent, as India has a far stronger military capability. It has more nukes too.

I changed my mind again; I don't think another world war is likely to happen... a least anytime soon. And probably not a world-wide nuclear one, if that.

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Post by Elrond » Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:48 am

I sure hope at least it won't be a nuclear war, which I would think it wouldn't be. Any assumptions about the future will not come true until the future becomes the present...and the past. I hear ya there, Wok, that it sure seems hypocritical that Iran shouldn't have nukes while Israel has them. If I were to expect a major war in the future, it would probably be between Pakistan and India (two nuclear powers). Whether the US would get involved is hard to tell. That's pretty much going to be the next big war unless a good understanding could be found between the two.
I know that the following is going to be hard to swollow, but the thought came in my head a few times about this whole war thing going on. The thought was that since the entire middle east pretty much despises Israel and we're supporting Israel, we could just let them to their own war while we mind our own business. That's a thought that's came to me a few times. It's not that I'm against Israel, but I can see how America's getting into perhaps more than it could stand, politically and militarily. Yes, we could win, but with many lives lost. I remember in American history back in high school that the text book said that we were trying to stay out of WWII when it happened, and WWI - but as we see, the United States played a big part in WWII! It seems that no matter how much we wanna stay out of something, instead we end up being swept up in the greatest battles!
I think that if Pakistan and India ever go to war, the US will try to stay out of it, but it will still be swept up in the whole fray! War just seems to be becoming a way of life for everyone, except maybe Switzerland - as they stay neutral. America, however, is even more confined and safer than Switzerland. I have thought every once in a while about the possibility of America being neutral, since it did have the possibility to do so. Of course, the thing that keeps us fighting is the fact that there's always someone out there declaring war on us because they think we're arrogant and wreckless.etc..
The big 'cowboy' image of the United States is what everyone against the US seems to fear the most. We try diplomacy and it just seems to fail everytime, as it does with Israel. The amount of anti-semitism in the world is linking our alliance with Israel with the attacks we have absorbed.
If there is a World War III, I don't think that it will be global. The only way it would be global is if it went nuclear. Whether or not there will be a major war like that, we must still live while we can and not worry so much about it, though we will still be prepared for it militarily if it happens. We can only trust that our government will do the right thing, and I know that I myself don't like placing trust so easily on something I know little about! If we are an empire in denial, then I will just have to live in this empire with a false sense of security. I wish all our allies luck in everything they may encounter. England has prevailed in many wars in the past and will prevail again, as the United States will. I respect the people of that great country for their alliance with us, even if they don't quite go for what our government is doing - their thoughts are theirs and ours. I don't have 100% faith in how the government does things either, but I still try to value every day of my life by the fact that I live in a country that is based on some level of freedom. I feel proud every day that goes by that we weren't attacked and look to the next day being brighter yet.
But there's always the terrorists, which there will always be someone out there who's a terrorist - it's like crime syndicates, except with kamikazees! The fact that there will be war for a long time is made a fact by another fact: that it is extra hard to distinguish a criminal from a normal person. There will always be some place where our security is weak, and sometimes that weakness will be exploited in an attack. It's just like the risk we take when we drive to work each day through combat traffic - any one day, or hour, or second, could just be our last. But we take that risk nonetheless.
Death, to me, is just a way for us to appreciate life. It's also a lesson - that we don't miss something until it's gone. Even if things seem hopeless in the world, death is the ultimate in hopelessness for the person who dies. While living, we have the ability to deal with misfortune by striving to make things better for ourselves, our families, our communities, our nations, and our world if we can. That's a philosophy I understand, but don't use all the time. Some days I get up and just would want to stay asleep instead, especially when the day before met with misfortune.
The men who have died in Iraq fighting the evil that marched before them have made the ultimate and selfless sacrifice to protect those they do not even know. And still many more are to come, I'm sure. We're never quite prepared to lose some of us, but we're absolutely not prepared to lose all of us. In other words, if there are newer and greater threats to defend against or to avoid, life will still go on and there will always be a last alliance left to defend themselves if things get real bad. The next World War may be called Global War I, as the whole world just may be involved - but that scenario is unlikely to happen, at least in the next couple of decades. In 2040, perhaps, the world will be in the greatest fight ever. In the Star Trek timeline, WWIII occurs in that decade. It seems likely in reality that this decade will be one of great war. But it may never happen if things are done to stop it - as it is possible in these times to stop war from happening.
The human race is going through a hell of a tough time, but we are probably prepared to survive it, even if we lose some people. We'll just have to live for now - and prepare for the future - and learn from the past, but never live in the past. As far as fighting for survival and preparing for the worst, I think that there's no avoiding some level of disaster. The 'shield of America' that is our military cannot just hunt the enemy, it must also absorb the impact of their attacks. When we get through these times of great wars that may come, humanity will have to be at least a little closer to cooperation where we will all appreciate the simple things in life, like responsibility and fellowship. Someday, humanity may not need to feel like proving themselves through skill in battle but instead through skill in dealing with humanity. I hope that day comes in my lifetime.
We could even go a little further, perhaps into the 24th century, where humanity will be united, but this time against another race like the Borg or the Xindi. That will be the time for more great battles and wars - where the galaxy will consider the question, "will the galaxy ever be united?" That question, considering humanity achieves unity itself, will not be resolved for probably hundreds and thousands of years! Star Trek seems optimistic in this way - that the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans are united at the end of the 24th century! If all of humanity would be that optimistic, then trees and rainbows and fellowship would be a true image, not just one we imagine when we think of world peace! But as long as there's someone who has fear in something they don't understand, there will be war and crime. Chaos being the natural order of the Universe, humanity has only recently identified it. It will take, I'm sure, thousands of years more to see a unity of the masses. It may be our natural course of evolution that may make us humans (and elves) able to fend off chaos and fear before it takes control of us.
Humanity may advance one day to view religion as not ritualistic, but as a way to live life and coexist with others. Some people already do, but some don't. To some, religion is used as a justification for horrific acts. To some others, religion is amended to include philosophies of war and violence. Perhaps through our experiences this millenium, we will form a more evolved sense of life. But while we are doing that, we will still have to defend ourselves many more times so that as much life is preserved as possible. So we now have two immediate goals - to live life as we always do - and to defend ourselves if it comes to it. We must let time and nature take its course and I'm sure that if humanity makes it through the 21st century, that we'll all feel at least a little better about the world in which we live! I'd say that the world could use a lot more people like you dudes, who obviously know what is right and wrong! And if you dudes represent the attitudes of most people on Earth, then the future will most likely be a good one. We here all know that the most important thing is not just to defeat our enemies, but to make ourselves stronger and help our friends when they most need it! That's pretty much what makes this war on terrorism pale in comparison to these immediate priorities, though we will still fight terror if it knocks at our door!

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Re: American beheaded in Iraq

Post by Zered003 » Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:25 pm

game-guru wrote:i thought the war in iraq was wrong because it wasnt justified, then i saw farhenheit 9/11 and i saw why those greedy american BASTARDS, stealing another countrys oil, going to war saying it was for the good of the world, when america was only trying to fill there pockets

You should realize that movie has very little base in fact and was nothing more then a ploy to discredit the Bush administation and to get John Kerry elected.

The reason Micheal Moore did not recieve what he should have for making that movie is the very country and the very soldiers he pissed on in it are the reason he is allowed the freedom to say such ignorate things.

I am not getting into a flame war here or anything like that. I can not hold your views against you for 2 reasons. 1= Its not my place to judge you. And 2= You have come to your opinion based on lies and false propaganda.

I am not saying America is always right. Everyone is wrong at some point.

It just sounds like what many in the world are saying for the same reason. They want a reason to hate America and make themselves feel more important.

I am not saying the war was right either. All I know is the Iraqi people have thier government back in thier hands. They have a voice now. The only people against the idea of Freedom is those who stand to lose power b/c of it. That is the reason for the beheading. It is also the same reason for the hatred of America and the reason people call americans bastards. Because they know if the reality of freedom was to hit thier country then they might not or would not be in a place of power anymore.

Here is something for you to think about. If America was truely only concerned with wealth then it never would give control up of any country it was able to over power. America has a history of conquering nations then turning around and giving it back to the people. Try reading American history. Or even world history.

Think thats enough for me to say myself. All I ask is before people start bashing America (this includes it's own citizens) that they accually get the truth and not just a pile of **** propaganda.
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Post by Elrond » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:21 pm

American b******? Well, I have a lot to say on that, but I won't participate in a flame war either. Just one thing to say: that includes the civilians here - people living day to day doing the best they can - because someone has something against our government or the war or Bush doesn't mean that they should have something against the American people themselves - they are people just like people in any other country - most of which are innocent most definitely!!

My take on Fahrenhite 9/11 is that instead of getting John Kerry elected, it did the opposite - most of the turn-voters who have seen the movie saw that it was a movie of propaganda and not a movie of complete facts - just Michael Moore's opinion merged with skewered politics. It got Bush reelected. You notice the people who protested against the war did so violently many times. And meanwhile, when Clinton was in office, the Conservatives didn't do any protesting because it only causes more damage. Some liberals think that they are more tolerant and progressive, but when protests turn into miniature riots, that idea goes down the toilet. This is neither the 60s nor the 70s anymore - this is the age of survival - we must do anything to survive and if that means killing our enemy and experiencing losses of our own, then it is what must be done.

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Post by blindeye01 » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:50 pm

As a liberal, I hate Michael Moore. He could not rest with the truth on Bush, which was damming enough, but he had to "enhance" the stupidity of Bush. We must realize that Bush is a strong-willed, religious man. He has high morals, and could be smarter than we think. However, his failure to understand the needs of the scientific and Middle Eastern communities is costing us dearly. We can bring about regime change if we do not need oil anymore. Those dictatorships would lose their money, and their power. The youth who have seen tastes of democracy would seize the opportunity to create their own.

Hydrogen fuel cells are not the answer because an equal amount of power is needed to create hydrogen, so the same amount of oil energy would be needed to create the hydrogen.

Trying to wrestle these countries out of dictatorships, although logical with countries with a history of democracy (WWII Europe) is not suited for people who never had one. Its like giving a gun to a baby. They don't understand how it works, and how it can be used. To them it would feel like an ingenuine revolution.

It would be like winning a game because you got help. In a way, you resent the person who helped you because you could not do it yourself.
Last edited by blindeye01 on Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Corbomite_Ray » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:32 pm

I applaud blindeye's intelligence statements of his views and his logical arguments to back them up, as well as his geniune willingness to see both sides of an issue. It's a rare gift, and for it, I salute you.

*salutes*
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Post by Elrond » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:35 pm

Here here! Absolutely! Salute! :)

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Post by blindeye01 » Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:04 am

Most of us liberals are like that in New York, its not just an anomaly. Besides, on the other side there are conservatives like me in a way, who want moderate ideas, and are willing to support the "other side's" ideas if they make sense. I salute you both for taking such interest in politics, because a democracy only works if its people care to know how it works.

*salutes back*
Last edited by blindeye01 on Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Elrond » Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:55 pm

Cool! Hey, how are ya coming along on the Political Mini-Mod, blindeye01?

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Post by blindeye01 » Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:32 pm

You know, I was so close to finishing it. I just had to find a way to get the sound to play for the self destruct, and arrange good clips for each action, but I hit a block. I simply have been laying off Armada for a while. I had been doing so much on Armada, and then I simply lost interest for a while. I've also had schoolwork and other bs to do.

I am sorry I have taken a break from it, but the mod will be up as soon as I can get over my bought of laziness.
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Post by Corbomite_Ray » Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:05 pm

Happens to me all the time. I just get burnt out then come back after a couple months and start modding again.
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Post by Elrond » Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:14 pm

Same here - I haven't modelled any ships for almost two days now. A month ago, I wasn't modding at all - and that lasted since late October. I had a long period of time where I didn't do any modding at all!

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