American beheaded in Iraq

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Numbazix
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Post by Numbazix » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:12 pm

The Israeli intelligence service is considered to the the best in the world. The CIA would do well to learn from these very effective people. Now that the US is into pre-emption as a policy it seems wise to learn from those who do this best.
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Post by Twitch » Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:25 am

CaptSyf- beautiful! Yeah finger some high-profile schmuck and mention how he aided us in some way then sit back and let them fight each other.
Getting operative into a deep cover is nearly impossible. It's like moonshiners in the hills. Unless they know you personally or you are a trusted member of a family they know they ain't gonna let you stoke the boiler on their still.

I like the way the Israelis did that one Hamas dude about a year ago. They popped in with a gunship and blew the mofo's house away with a missile. Yeah there was collateral damage but what the hell. No other way. How soon would the indiginous folks have spotted a a squad on foot and warned the goon?

Those jamokes hate us because we support Israel. No other real reason. When some warped woman says she hopes her kids grow up to be suicide bombers you know we're a long friggin way from Star Trek. Guess a kid working at a drive thru falaffel stand is a failure in most of these fruitcakes' eyes. 99.99% of these mouthy people have never been to the US and spent prolonged time here and know nothing about us.

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Post by Elrond » Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:04 pm

Numbazix and CaptSyf and Twitch - right on! Our intelligence agencies could learn a great deal by taking Israeli Intelligence 101! Since survival depends on defense and defense on intelligence, it would seem obvious that the CIA should be schooled by the Israeli intelligence agency!
Our intelligence agencies aren't completely ineffective, but they do need a lot of help from the Israelis. The stages of working with intelligence includes intelligence gathering (which we're good at), intelligence information processing (which we sort of...cough cough...suck at), the conversion of raw data to useful fact (which the CIA needs to improve on if it is to be effective), and last but not least, the informing of this useful data to those who will use it to protect our troops, our cause, and our alliances' nations. Those people who receive this information include tacticians, strategists, generals, etc who execute orders to other people who then give these orders to the troops. If the intelligence is good at bringing useful information QUICKLY and ACCURATELY, then it is a real good chance that a confrontation with an enemy will not result in disaster!

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Post by Numbazix » Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:50 pm

It appears we are beginning to form a consensus between Republicans and Democrats here at AFC. This is a good example of finding out where we agree as opposed to where we differ. It is also a good example of what needs to be done on a much larger scale within the world to defeat terrorism.

A small group can have a large impact only if it achieves the desired mindset within its enemy. Fortunately for the civilised world, we aren't as two dimensional as they seem to be. Therfore there is no difficulty to forcasting the eventual outcome. The free-world will prevail and the terrorists of this generation will become a historical footnote.

It is obvious why their brand of terrorism will not work. First, they are a small minority. Even though there may be quite a few that sympathize with them, the active members are really quite small. Second, with so many that would benefit from the eradication of these goons and the bounties placed on them going ever higher, eventually some local will add to our intelligence, have a great payday and relocation, and we'll get the leaders. The local whose info lead to the arrest and capture of Sadaam got 25 million and do you think for one moment he regrets his actions? Heh. Third, people grow tired of the violence and although they can be misdirected, over time they focus on the true enemy. When this happens the terrorists will rue the day they were born.

Others will come and certainly go. The history of terrorism is replete with examples that show it ultimately is a failed concept. Like Grandma used to say, "You catch more flies with sugar than you can with vinegar." Ultimately terrorism defeats itself given time. Never negotiate with them! Always oppose them! Indifference and apathy are the fields that promote their growth. We must fight them wherever they emerge and never, ever give them a break!
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Post by Twitch » Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:03 am

Numbazix- The terrorism "thang" on 9/11 never was a Demo or Rep thing. It didn't matter who was Prez at the time. The people galvanized behind his resolve to basically "let's get theses mofos!" just as 1941 when FDR was Prez. That's the beauty of it really. As soon as another at-home terror thing happens all citizens regardless of political feelings will be behind the Prez. Every time they do something it actually strengthens us.

The sad part is that since 9/11 we've degenerated into this ridiculousness about a witch hunt to speculate whether it allegedly could have. would have, should have been possible to guess that something might happen and to blame some one or some thing.

This retro projection using today's knowledge in hindsight is a flawed way to think. It's like saying that the radar operators using their 1st primative radar receiver in Hawaii SHOULD have been possitive that the returns on the screen were not the B-17 group coming from the mainland but a sinister jap force of planes. "Musta been a conspiracy of some kind," we think today.

SO regardless of political thoughts as we approach our country's birthday we are a UNITED people in that this terrorist bullshit has gotta stop! :evil:

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Post by CaptSyf » Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:12 am

I just wanted to say, We gave them back thier country, and gave them Saddam. Why don't we just pull out, and inform the Iraqi Gov. that if they can't controll thier country from here on out, and they become any kind of threat, then we will not invade again, but instead we will NUKE them! :twisted:

Yes, I want to nuke them. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Post by Wok » Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:29 am

Right.

EDIT: Makes me glad the Bush admin doesn't believe in this 'War on Terror' stuff. Phew!

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Post by Numbazix » Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:55 am

The suggestion that we should nuke any country is, whether in jest or not, sick. Sorry, but that's what I feel. Do you have a good working knowledge of what these bombs do? What about other nations who will receive fallout? Or doesn't it matter because they are Arabs? What about the fact that we will incinerate not only insurgents, but innocent men, women, and children? It's a quick solution that would cause irreparable harm to millions and forever damage the United States of America.
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Post by Elrond » Sat Jul 03, 2004 3:05 pm

Well, all I can really say is that this terrorism is an evil that must be stopped by someone and it's a fact that it's gonna be us that will have to stop it. I'd love to be able to round up all the terrorists in one corner of the world and evacuate the innocent and then nuke the terrorists! Since that's not gonna happen, the only way the United States can fight the enemy while protecting its troops is by using reliable, quick, effective intelligence - that's something that the Israelis could teach us (Intelligence 101). The problem is not our intelligence-gathering abilities, but it's our ability to get all that raw data, convert it to definite facts, and get the word out to those in our nation who make the plans and take the action! It's not only that, but the ability to do it quickly despite the constantly-incoming information the CIA no doubt receives. The 'information overload' that our intelligence agency is suffering from is pretty much like a disease to our troops and those who stand against the terrorists. When fighting a decentralized force such as we are fighting, we must departmentalize our methods of intelligence processing (in other words, distribute the raw data to a lot of people in the CIA which would speed up and make accurate the task that the CIA must do). Dividing and conquering is the method the CIA must use in order to get information quickly to those in our forces who need it!

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Post by CaptSyf » Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:51 am

Sorry guys, I really don't wish to nuke them, it's just very frustrating to see what B.S. these baboons are up to. In the paper, on TV, on the web. It's everywhere. And so after being up for 48+hrs, I get a little narrow-minded. It's like tunnel-vision, or something. Anyways, Yes I am aware of the radiation and other aspects of Nuclear warheads. I probably know more then people want to know. I did some studies in my younger days about them. I even know what Krypton 85 isotopes is and were to find it. To joke about something doesn't alone classify one person as "sick" when you are talking about the most "sick" people classified! I would rather find a way to communicate to these people, and find a solution that all people could be satisfied with. But, it seems just not possible. Is one so wrong to try to make light-hearted chat within a community such as AFC. When the very topic sends chills down your spine. Knowing that they could attack at any given moment. These people use children as walking bombs... How much more sick does one get?
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Post by Elrond » Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:20 pm

That's alright - it's alright to be angry with these bastards for what they have done. I get very frustrated as well and would personally want to see them nuked (at the same time being sure no innocent people were hurt). The more the innocent die, the more angry my temper is at this enemy. Non one's wrong to feel frustrated and show it - especially when written (as long as it isn't against anyone here - and nothing I've seen here so far has been an attack or destructive criticism on anyone). We're really all frustrated and that's why there has seemed to have been a separation in beliefs and attitudes. I've enjoyed debating with you guys over these last months! I considered the nuke idea myself because I was frustrated. I've even at one time considered just accepting that we wouldn't win this war - which is when I was vastly frustrated (but now I know that this war isn't fully in vane - there will be some resolve in these issues that may not be total and permanent, but the Earth and America and its allies will prevail as they have always done).
And some of these things I felt not just after being up for 48 hours, but after just getting up in the morning and hearing news of the foul acts these terrorists have done. We know that nukes would never be launched on the terrorists (in turn, hurting the innocent) unless there was absolutely no other alternative and the fate of America and the world itself was at stake! But it's no wrong thing to be politically incorrect when you're frustrated with an enemy every last person in this country has in common. We all have much anger since 9/11 - Democrats, Independents, and Rebulicans! The taboos of political correctness is another barrier that we have been removing in the last few years. Since we all have the right to argue for political correctness and sensitivity, we also have the right to say what we really feel when we feel it! And when it's an attack against those who want to see us all dead, I guess it doesn't sound that politically incorrect - it sounds altogether natural.
Us human beings are somehow supposed to be different from every other lifeform on Earth in that we are expected to not do what comes naturally when we feel frustrated. Of course, killing someone because of anger is murder, but wishing death on an enemy who wants to see us dead is totally natural and we can't deny ourselves of that feeling. That feeling can eat us up inside if we don't sort of 'vent' to people, even if it causes them to feel the same way - the fact that someone feels the same way as you do is because they really felt that way all along - in this instant, that feeling is shared by us all who can't believe 9/11 happened. We're angry as hell because of these bastard radical muslims and I for one am frustrated, and since I'm not a person in politics, I can use my right to show my frustration through words - as long as it's not an attack on our own people in a free country. But I can say that in all my time on the forums here on AFC that I have not seen that many attacks on people for what they think - just constructive criticism and some latent frustration we show toward the terrorists. If all nations could work together like we do here, then there would never be need for weapons against people on our own planet.
In the Stone Age, civilization was a thing that was rare to see. Human kind's idea of civilization was family and tribes. And even then, families didn't get along with each other and civil war erupted in tribes. Now, there are still solitary problem all over the place, but they are usually far-spread and seem to happen all the time because of how many people who exist on this planet (in other words, now that we have more people on the Earth, we will have more crime). For the most part, this nation is pretty much united, as was the dream of our forefathers. The cost for this freedom has been evident and it is the reason for our frustration. A little bit of our independence is always on the line as long as there is someone on this planet that wishes to see others dead because of their extremely flawed philosophies (criminals and terrorists).
I believe that since the Stone Age that our races (humans and Elves :lol: ) have become greatly united with the coming of nations and countries. Now the beacon of freedom is not just the United States, but those who love freedom and defend freedom. Life is a lot better now than it has been in the Revolutionary days, the Civil War, the Middle Ages, during the age of empires (4000 BC to 700 AD), (and the times of Melkor and Sauron - :P ). With the trend of life getting better over the centuries, it is logical to assume that (if we survive the nuclear age of the 21st century) life will be better in the centuries to come. Unity in totality is never going to be, but unity in majority will happen. The greater the population of the Earth, the greater the instances of crime will be! Considering that 1 in 400 people (or more) in the wild west were criminals and 1 in 5,000 people in present-day United States are criminals, the instances in terms of percentages have went down. In statistics, it's not the raw numbers of instances of crime that occur that represents the status of living, it's the percentage of instances in the population that represent either good or bad times.
We thus have a right to be frustrated when that statistic (and our lives especially) are threatened by a group or groups of people who are living in the radical philosophies that existed three ages ago! We also have the right to feel proud that we have come this far and have done so much for the advancement of not only our great country, but the advancement of the human race in its entirety. The radical Muslims who live in the past are doomed to repeat the past - that means that though they may survive, their philosophies will live on through their offspring. It is them that we will fight in future engagements. But with this war, the instances of those engagements will not be as frequent in occurance! That means that fighting the terrorists, we will lose many more lives to come, but we will also prevent the loss of more.
It is the terrorists that have no doubt already lost the fight, for in the end, the fact that we are fighting for our freedom and our lives and the terrorists are fighting for revenge and improving their own singular political image will be the fact that dooms these terrorists to lives that have already fallen into darkness. They choose not to listen to the advice of wiser people, they choose not to consider a different opinion then theirs, and they choose to satisfy their own personal demons that now define their way of life. There is no hope for them - they will not be remembered with honor as they so want to be. They will be remembered for their mortal sins that above all else, define the greatest of mortal sins - the sin of taking life for the reason of revenge and personal profit and gain. Even if it could be stated that there is no afterlife, their lives have already been made miserable by their own impossibility to grow up and evolve within themselves. And if there is an afterlife, they will either not see it, or they will suffer in the eternal fires of hell. If there is an afterlife, never will they be allowed to look upon the eyes of the angels let alone upon the eyes of God himself! They think they are doing the right thing - but believing that one is doing the right thing has a line that, if crossed, becomes something that isn't right in any definition of the word 'right.' We wish to see our young succeed and evolve and learn. The terrorists don't care about that - all they care about is that they have more people in which to become additional harbingers of terror on people that they have sworn to murder!
As long as we at least fight them, we can't lose. We are clearly on the advantage, though we will always have defeat now and then. Our defeats make us stronger (and of course, more frustrated). Their (the terrorists) defeats make them weaker and more likely to be defeated again and again - militarily and in the eyes of humanity! They want to be miserable. They make themselves miserable and everyone miserable that stands in their way. Their 'civilization' is one that is insane - their only possible conduit for confidence is through killing. If it isn't by nukes that we defeat them, it will be by every possible alternative available.
For those who lost loved ones in 9/11, they wished to see their generation and their younger generations succeed and live on and become stronger - but now for some that is not possible. The terrorists gained much confidence from that attack because it fulfilled the wishes of their brains, which live only in the past where the only variables and possibilities in life were killing, pride in killing, and the continuation of killing. In this war, our feeling for vengeance is justified because the terrorists did something to us that we should be pissed off about. The terrorists - they think they have the right to kill us just because they think we have it good and that we live long, uneventful lives.
Unfortunate for them that they are wrong - not all of us live well - it's just that we usually accept it without killing people. We didn't hurt them before, but they just had to go ahead and hurt us. More or less, they just hurt themselves more. I pity them - for they know not what it is to better themselves. I also deeply despise them for what they have done - they actually hurt us because they just didn't like the way we looked at them or something stupid like that! They're supposed to feel bad because of our success? If they really felt that bad, they should be trying to compete by trying to make their world a good world. Shoot, they're just proving our point with every second that goes by. One thing that they will never get from us is the right to say, 'we told ya so!' Didn't they ever go to consider that THEY may be the ones making their own lives miserable - oh that's right, they don't ever think that they could be wrong (it's a mentality that it seems they just can't comprehend). That proves that they are thousands of years behind everyone else! They should take after the beliefs of faithful and devoted Muslims who really listened to what their religion said - to treat their people with respect and not kill people.
Like I said before, they think they will get into 'heaven' and be greeted by 72 Virgins and all that BS! They will instead be greeted by Saint Peter's middle finger and the eternal flames and darkness that will follow! :twisted: Like Bush said when this all began, these radicals are the lowest form of life on Earth and must be treated as such!

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Post by CaptSyf » Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:01 am

Thank you Elrond(and all who have debated here). I am glad to see that I am not the only person on AFC that feels so frustrated about those extremist terrorists. Of coarse, I really don't call them terrorists, because they don't strike fear into my heart, like they so hope. I call them baboons, because they have the mentality of a baboon. You know, where the zoo keeper doesn't give the baboon the banana that it wants, so it jumps up and down, kicking and screaming. That's what I call them. You know, I have met muslims that live here in america. I must say, those baboons over in the middle-east are not muslims. Just like those so called christians of the last millinia that did the holy-wars were not true christians. I know what the bible says, and the crimes of the dark ages are the same thing these whanna'be muslims are doing, with thier Jihad. Oh, here's a thought, Jihad means holy-war! Could it be, that they are a millinia behind the times? who knows, maybe in 1,000 years or so, they'll be ready to join the rest of the free world. :roll:

BTW(off topic), Elrond: You sound like your an RPG"er". AD&D and stuff. I personally like "Rifts" as well. I guess that's why I like AFC's forums so well. It seems that like minded people come here often.


Until next time(holding up hand and doing the vulcan hand thing), Live long and prosper!
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Post by Numbazix » Mon Jul 05, 2004 7:09 am

CaptSyf wrote:Sorry guys, I really don't wish to nuke them, it's just very frustrating to see what B.S. these baboons are up to. In the paper, on TV, on the web. It's everywhere. And so after being up for 48+hrs, I get a little narrow-minded. It's like tunnel-vision, or something. Anyways, Yes I am aware of the radiation and other aspects of Nuclear warheads. I probably know more then people want to know. I did some studies in my younger days about them. I even know what Krypton 85 isotopes is and were to find it. To joke about something doesn't alone classify one person as "sick" when you are talking about the most "sick" people classified! I would rather find a way to communicate to these people, and find a solution that all people could be satisfied with. But, it seems just not possible. Is one so wrong to try to make light-hearted chat within a community such as AFC. When the very topic sends chills down your spine. Knowing that they could attack at any given moment. These people use children as walking bombs... How much more sick does one get?
Good points. I recant my commentary made earlier. I did not see it as a joke and that was an error in perception on my part. For that I apologize and am truly sorry. I did not mean to seem as if I was singling you out and classifying you personally. I did my commentary based on the horrific thought that this was a serious comment. Again, my error.

Sometimes I have trouble identifying what is called "dark humor", where the subject might be nuclear weapons, or whatever else one can think of that is terrible, but made in jest. Sometimes I get way too serious. A personal defect. In retrospect I can see why you might be angry with me so I will say that not only was I in error, I was out of line, arrogant, and ignorant in my remarks and I apologize for any harm they might have caused you.

With this apology I retract not only what I've said, I also intend to suspend myself. I will maintain a presence on the Bio-Hazzard Forum here at AFC. When will I return to regular postings? That depends on may things which will not be specified here.

To all, good-bye and good luck in all your endeavors.
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Post by CaptSyf » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:40 am

Numbazix: I am sorry that my posts offended you in any way. There's no need to feel bad though. Anyone that would truely wish to use those vile weapons is insane. Thus, thats why I wanted to stress, that my comments were just me, trying to vent out some frustration within this great community. I come here because of all of you guys(and gals). I think your great people. I am glad that people can debate this type of topic without taking it as more than that. I actually pray for a peaceful resolution to the problems of this conflict with terrorist. I guess that's why I like this wonderful
site. It is one that has many talented and wonderful people like yourself.
By all means, when I or someone else says something like that(suggesting something like using extreme methods against extremists), jump on in. That's what is great about this forum.
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Post by Elrond » Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:48 pm

Numbazix - don't suspend yourself - that's no way to treat yourself. We are not angry with you at all, just making our own points on top of what prior postings there are. You have a great mind along with most of the people here! I went into exile before, but I assure you that there is no reason for it in this case. You jumped on something and that was right - I wasn't attacking your right to do that. You didn't attack any person - just the idea - that's what freedom is! I agree that anyone that would wish to use these weapons would be terribly mistaken - but thinking about using them is just our way of venting. Sometimes we forget that other people vent in other ways - and that means we've probably crossed the possibility of nuking our enemies at least for a second! It's not the thought that's wrong - it would be doing it that would be truly wrong. Sometimes it seems that is what is coming when we say we want that to happen, so everyone has a right to attack something they feel wrong.
The anger has gotten to us all and we have all been wearied by tragedy and much toil. To hang on for one more second or one more minute is our mission now. Don't suspend yourself Numbazix - no reason for it - hang on for just a day and you will decide that in the end, we're not causing any harm at all by debating this. I know that I felt like suspending myself several of times before because of comments that I made that were really stupid - no comment here was stupid. Peace to you all on this Fourth of July - we've earned it! :)

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