Their Killing Star Trek!

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Their Killing Star Trek!

Post by CaptSyf » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:51 am

Ok, Maybe I'm missing something here. First, they give Enterprise the AXE just when it was getting good. Next, they don't know if they are going to make a new Trek series. Then the rumors of a new movie are just that, rumors, and nothing more. Now, they are planning to terminate Startrek online. Re: http://www.trektoday.com/news/061205_03.shtml . I don't know about you, but to me, this is the trumpet sounding the song of the Fallen soldier ( the song they play at a soldier's funeral). They are actually killing all things Trek it seems.

I weep for the world without Star Trek. I am very sad at this moment. :cry: :cry: :cry:

What do you think? How does that make you feel?
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Post by Cloud_Walker » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:13 am

I think its about time. Before you screwtinize this post read first. I make my point on why I say its about time Star Trek fall has come.

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This Is My Point

Well have you ever thought that maybe not enough people now a-days like Star Trek like they use to? Maybe the Star Wars Episode 1-3 movies had a hand in taking the Star Trek fans away and making them Star Wars fans. Or maybe people have just gotten sick of Star Trek with plots being repeated from previous series or somehow mirroring already done plots. Because One can only do "To Boldly Go Where No Man Has Gone Before" a couple times to have it seem original. For me I started loosing interest in Star Trek when Voyager came onto the scene. Or maybe its time for a great franchise to fall and wait for the right time to make a come back. Like take King Kong. That executives of that franchise have been waiting for the right moment to make a come back. Especially Since Kong was overshadowed greatly by my favorite franchize. Godzilla. But now that the Godzilla franchise is 50 years old Toho said that there will be no more Godzilla movies for along time if not never. Yes I heard there was a rumor that there will be a Godzilla movie in 2013 from a reliable source. But We wont know until 2013. The same goes for Gamera, if you dont know who that is, he is the Giant Turtle that spits fire and flies in the Japanese monster movies. The last movie was made in 1999 and Daiei said that was the last Gamera movie for a long time. But like King Kong, Daiei is going to be releasing a new Gamera movie if not already in Japan then by this time next year.

Do you see the point I'm trying to get at? Just because a franchise is on its way of being "terminated" that technically does not mean it will. Maybe the Star Trek executives are doing what George Lucas did. Wait til Star Trek was starting to become unpopular to put out Episodes 1-3 out. Maybe they are doing what the Executives of King Kong (Universal) and Gamera (Daiei) have done. Wait until a franchise that has greatly overshadowed them, Godzilla (Toho) to put out a fresh and new start.

Also look how long the Guyver series has been inactive. Last episode from the original series was i believe in 1992, im not to sure about that fact. And it was greatly overshadowed by DragonBall to DragonBall-GT. Now that the DragonBall series is on its way out Guyver is coming back with a brand new fresh start. I believe the first episode of the new series aired in Japan on August 6th of this year.

Every great franchise needs to have a fall and then a rebirth. Just like with the Guyver. I had given up hope that there was going to be a continuation of the series from where episode 12 ended. I had given up hope that there was going to be a new Guyver movie. But when I found out on July 2nd Guyver was making a long awaited comeback my hope was renewed.

Because to tell you the truth I do believe Star Trek was loosing fans greatly to Star Wars and other series and that "The Dominion War" - Deep Space Nine, Borg - Voyager, and Nemesis - TNG were their last best hope of keep fans. But that is just my opinion

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Post by CaptSyf » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:54 am

You make some good points. Cloud_walker.

Well, I for sure am going to miss the "Good 'Ole' Days". Star Trek has been here before. NBC tried to bury Trek Long ago. Then at some point, it became the rage, and they produced 4 new series and 10 movies based on it after about 10 years "in the grave", and Trek will rise again. Who knows, maybe I'll be at the helm next time. 8)
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Post by MajorPayne » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:00 pm

Agreed Cloud_Walker. Its time to give Trek a couple of years break. That would allow writers and producers/directors to go back to the drawing board and realise Rodenberrys original way of doing the series. TOS was there for the humour. TNG took a more serious side. DS9 was the dark series. Voyager was the modern day equivelent of Lost In Space, but all had good parts and bad parts. All were good in their own way, but when it came to enterprise they really did mess up with the trek time line, and I believe if Rodenberry was around he would be less than happy with the results, even if the series did start to get better towards the end.

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Post by rodglas » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:17 pm

I'm not one who thinks Star Trek 'needed' a break. I'm not entirely against the idea either.

What Star Trek needs is fresh blood. Brannnon and Braga (some like to call them the killer-B's) and a lot of the writting staff have been around for years. Too many years, they have gotten themselves into a rut. DS9 was one of the most original Treks because it dared to be different, darker, gritter, less Federation pleasent.

The last season of Ent should have been the first, because under Manny Coto the series became something i think Fans could get behind, a true exploration of the the Pre Kirk universe.

Giving Trek a break is fine, giving it new leadership (five years ago) would have made the break unnessecary.

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Post by Zered003 » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:51 pm

I do not think Trek required a beak either. I remember not being very happy when they replaced TNG with Voyager. I have also noticed that it normally took about 3 or 4 seasons to get a series going with a good following. Enterprise did not mess with the timeline. Infact it followed it. It took the alterations in history that both Voyager and First Contact had affected. I think they should have allowed Enterprise to go through 7 seasons. It would not be the break some wanted. But having only 1 series going for 7 years is a slow down that would have allowed viewers to come back to it. Plus it would have kept loyal viewers always getting something new. I know the next movie is atleast 2 or 3 years away minimum. By the time the next movie came out Enterprise would be done with. How a studio can abandon its viewers like they have is amazing. If the studio wants to alienate its views then I suppose soon after the fall of that studio there will be someone who accually wants to make money off Star Trek and release something dealing with it. And on a personal note. I am also a big Star Wars fan. Star Wars has not taken any viewing loyalty away from anyone in my family away from Star Trek. It is just more Sci-Fi to follow. I refuse to believe that Star Wars and Star Trek take away viewers from each other. Infact in many cases they share them.
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Post by Captain_H » Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:50 pm

I think that STAR TREK should have at least a year break, but I like your explaination of the timeline discripancies Zered003
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Post by Majestic » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:22 pm

Zered is right. I too am both a Star Trek and Star Wars fan, as well as many other series like SG-1 etc.

I believe that it was Brannnon and Braga that screwed things up with Trek. It was unfortinute that Manny Coto didn't come in eariler, like in season 1. I personally thought that Enterprise was the best trek series, as it wasn't afraid to explore, like with the Andorians and even a Borg episode that answers a few questions. I also thought that the Xindi season was pretty good and Season 4 was just great. I found DS9 too rushed with the Dominion War, here they are loosing after the Breen come on the scene then bang they have won an entire war a couple of episodes later.

I do think that Trek needs a few years break. But when it comes back, either in movie form or tv series form, I just hope that it is Manny Coto at the helm, just look at threshold to see how successful the other two are. :roll:

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Post by Neil » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:47 pm

I think the Next Generation needs to be brought to a complete end. They've started by destroying Data, promoting Riker and transferring Troi. Now to finish the job by promoting Picard and every bugger else off to new assignments!
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Post by Captain_H » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:59 pm

Neil wrote:I think the Next Generation needs to be brought to a complete end. They've started by destroying Data, promoting Riker and transferring Troi. Now to finish the job by promoting Picard and every bugger else off to new assignments!
Techincally they have also promoted Crusher to head of Star Fleet Medical.

As can be seen in a deleted scene from Nemisis.
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Post by Zered003 » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:34 am

They did a decent job of ending the TNG crew as the primary characters in future movies. As far as the death of Data. It was kinda required. For 2 reasons. 1. Brent Spiner is getting older and can't play a non aging adroid forever. 2. Data like Spock was representative of the best qualities in humanskind. The best quality is self sacrifice. That is what both Data and Spock represent. And just like they found a way to bring Spock back. They did the same in Data with B4. So, he is there for futre use if needed but not required like before. I would like to see the next movie include all the series in some way. Have Janeway find a way to bring Voyager back out into space and fight along side the Enterprise, Titan, and Defiant. That would make for an awesome movie. As long as they don't fly the Defiant into the center of a large ship and have it blow itself up taking out the enemy it will be fine. A short break is fine. I just don't think it will be as long as some think it will be. As far as the timelines you must look at it in this order TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and then Enterprise. Granted as far as stardates Enterprise comes before TOS but in timelines Enterprise would be far less without the affects of temporal agents or manipulation that happens in all the previous series. Because of that they could even go as far as using computers to alter TOS look to a more modern look as far as what the ships look like. Keep the designs but us computers to show the old constitution class like they did in DS9 and Enterprise. That would be an interesting thing to see. TOS revamped by computers like Star Wars Episodes 4-6 were. 8) There are many things that can be done without destroying the quality or balance that Star Trek has. That is why I like ST and SW so much. They both require detail and the story telling is normally very deep and all works very well together. Anyways, a break maybe good. But I look forward to it coming back with a bang.
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Post by Neil » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:09 am

Captain_H wrote:
Neil wrote:I think the Next Generation needs to be brought to a complete end. They've started by destroying Data, promoting Riker and transferring Troi. Now to finish the job by promoting Picard and every bugger else off to new assignments!
Techincally they have also promoted Crusher to head of Star Fleet Medical.

As can be seen in a deleted scene from Nemisis.
They could have least made Picard an Admiral, as well then. I think that promotion is long overdue to a man who's held the rank of Captain for over 40 years!
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Post by Cloud_Walker » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:42 pm

Do you not remember Kirk's little pep-talk to picard while in the Nexus in Generation?

Kirk: Captain of the Enterprise?
Picard: That's right.
Kirk: Close to Retirement?
Picard: I'm not planning on it.
Kirk: Let me tell you something Dont. Dont let them promote you, don't let them transfer you, don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you are there you can make a difference.

So I doubt that if they do start Star Trek over again after a brief series retirement they will probably still have him as Captain of the Enterprise if they want to keep fans happy. That or soley make the Enterprise his ship to command if they do make him Admiral. Sort of like how Kirk forced Starfleet to give him the Enterprise back in the Motion Picture.

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Post by Neil » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:20 pm

To paraphrase Admiral Riker in "All Good Things", one of the perks of being an Admiral is you get to choose your own ship. I'd do it for the next film or series. Promote Picard to Admiral and bring Riker back as Captain of the Enterprise. In fact I thought they might do a series called Star Trek Enterprise which was based around the Enterprise E. Imagine my disappointment when I heard they were doing a Star Trek Enterprise based 10 years before the Federation was formed.

As far as First Contact and Voyager's timeline "alterations" are used to explain the fact Enterprise screwed up the timeline you're forgetting one of the fundamental laws of temporal mechanics: Any change made to the past has already happened before you go back in time. In 2360, Picard and the Enterprise E crew had already been back to 2063 even though they didn't go back until 2373 they'd already been there. That means they were there before Kirk ever set out on his 5 year mission as well.
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Post by Zered003 » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:56 am

Neil wrote:
As far as First Contact and Voyager's timeline "alterations" are used to explain the fact Enterprise screwed up the timeline you're forgetting one of the fundamental laws of temporal mechanics: Any change made to the past has already happened before you go back in time. In 2360, Picard and the Enterprise E crew had already been back to 2063 even though they didn't go back until 2373 they'd already been there. That means they were there before Kirk ever set out on his 5 year mission as well.

In Voyager they explained that the computer development was a direct result of temporal tampering. Also, that time was destroyed in the 29th century b/c of that. Voyager stopped that. So, time continued after that point. The "temporal cold war" was started after that point. So, it was b/c of Voyager that the Temporal cold war could happen. Then the affects of First Contact are clear. The warp flight was affected by the Borg. The enterprise had to change time to ensure the correct timeline. Temporal mechanics are difficult to discuss for one simple reason. You never know if something has already happened in the past b/c of influence from the future. Second, if someone in the present knows that the past was affected by the future. Then alternate choices can be made to change the future. Thus it would change the past. This is why many captains in Star Trek have said that Temporal Mechanics is a head ache and that they hate it.

Temporal Mechanics are as such. You can remove 10 people from history and not affect the overall history of time. OR you can remove 1 person and eventual destroy time as we know it. This is a subject that can be discussed till blue in the face. But if you look at the timeline of star trek in the order the shows and movies were produced My explaination of the timeline is completely plausable. and until Paramount releases an official account for the alterations it is up to our best guess.

This is why I enjoy Star Trek so much. You can't just throw anything out there. It has to be thought through and indepth. That is why it is so sad to see them try to kill it off. Long Live Star Trek!!
I enjoy the moments of peace and quite.
You know, when you dont think about anything.
I enjoy all 3 seconds of the day when that happens.

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