Hi
I searched for some kind of technical support forum and didn't found one so i'm posting my problem here.
The problem is, that i use BOTF now on my new faster PC and get a massive lagging interface in the galaxy map. It takes almost 1-2 seconds before the pop-up menu opens after right-click and setting a trade route is almost impossible as the mouse cursor moves only in 1-2 seconds steps too.
On my old, much slower PC everything worked fine and i used there the exact same OS. So it must have something to do with the greater performance of the new PC causing lags by e.g. a messed up timer in the engine or something.
However, i have no lags in any other menu. It's only the galaxy map which makes problems.
Is there a trick to slow down the PC just for this game or a special dll? I tried already all compatibility modes, but none helped and since it's a windaft game i can't use dosbox where it's possible to change the speed of the virtual machine.
I also installed the Joker 1.0.2 patch but it doesn't helped too.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance, LKO.
slow interface on F1 galaxy map using XPpro Sp2
Moderator: thunderchero
-
Lin_Kuei_Ominae
- Cadet 1st Year
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:00 am
-
KrazeeXXL
- BORG Trouble Maker
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:00 am
- Location: the 36th Chamber
- try at first installing SP3 and all new (security) updates (patch day is every month the 12th I think)! it's important that you have them all installed and updated every month!
- check if you have some hardware conflicts caused by old drivers or exotic hardware.
- update your drivers. "new" drivers from a new pc don't have to be "new"
- try check out your comp with tuneup utilities. I used a beta some months ago and it found "some" problems and issues. interesting was an usb setting. the standard was that Windows is checking if new hardware is connected every 1000ms I guess and TUU changed this to some higher value.
but I don't remember the registry key it was atm. [edit:] there are many other programs to change more or less critical registry settings. if you do, don't forget to backup the WHOLE registry before.
-> "regcompact.net" helped me in past, in fact of fragmented registry, there is also another program I used but can't remember its name - but it defragged some registry settings at every startup. but be aware of editing the registry. if you have no clue, please let it be.
The last freeware version of regcompact net you can download here; http://www.aplusfreeware.com/categories ... mpact.html[/edit]
if you done all this without results, maybe checking the BIOS would help you - but there are many settings possible. but worth a look, because your computer is new, most of them will be set on standard. but be careful, if you have no clue of BIOS settings, let it be!
[edit2]there is a Bios Kompendium available, but I just know it in german language. maybe there is a enlgish translation somewhere available 2. newest version is 6.8. there are all BIOS Settings in it with a little explanation to each one. its awesome and helped me a lot getting into BIOS[/edit2]
- check if you have some hardware conflicts caused by old drivers or exotic hardware.
- update your drivers. "new" drivers from a new pc don't have to be "new"
- try check out your comp with tuneup utilities. I used a beta some months ago and it found "some" problems and issues. interesting was an usb setting. the standard was that Windows is checking if new hardware is connected every 1000ms I guess and TUU changed this to some higher value.
but I don't remember the registry key it was atm. [edit:] there are many other programs to change more or less critical registry settings. if you do, don't forget to backup the WHOLE registry before.
-> "regcompact.net" helped me in past, in fact of fragmented registry, there is also another program I used but can't remember its name - but it defragged some registry settings at every startup. but be aware of editing the registry. if you have no clue, please let it be.
The last freeware version of regcompact net you can download here; http://www.aplusfreeware.com/categories ... mpact.html[/edit]
if you done all this without results, maybe checking the BIOS would help you - but there are many settings possible. but worth a look, because your computer is new, most of them will be set on standard. but be careful, if you have no clue of BIOS settings, let it be!
[edit2]there is a Bios Kompendium available, but I just know it in german language. maybe there is a enlgish translation somewhere available 2. newest version is 6.8. there are all BIOS Settings in it with a little explanation to each one. its awesome and helped me a lot getting into BIOS[/edit2]
-
Lin_Kuei_Ominae
- Cadet 1st Year
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:00 am
@Deimos: i tried all 3 and nothing changed.
@KrazeeXXL
i don't like to update windaft (yep i don't like MS
) if it's working already perfectly fine and since it's exact the same OS than on my old PC, it must be a problem with the game and the faster hardware. That happens for many other older games too, which use old timer methods like those based on cpu cycles, which aren't working on new cpus anymore (e.g. the borland pascal runtime 200 error)
But for many of them i found a workaround by either adding custom dlls to them, using compatibility mode or using them in dosbox.
Though i have the same problem on Privateer 2 the darkening. The win version lags like botf, but the dos version running in dosbox works fine.
I also read through the list of fixes from SP3 and i don't need any of them, since the PC has no InternetExplorer, no outlook, a barely never used explorer (use total commander), no need for security as it isn't connected to internet etc.
There are no hardware conflicts. I'm very sure at this one.
I'm using the latest drivers for every hardware.
I've changed already a lot of the core win functions which are listed in the group policy (gpedit.msc) and the registry to remove useless stuff like the windows help, balloon pop-ups, turned-off autoplay/automatic updates, deinstalled/deactivated IE/MSN/outlook/security center etc etc so i really don't want any update changing all this back to the default settings and making win slow again.
But as said i doubt that it's the OS, because it worked fine on the old PC.
I've manually set the BIOS to use the most stable and still quite fast settings i was able to find. (i prefer stability over speed; just a bit OCed cpu and manually set RAM timer) I won't try changing things here just for one old game
even if it's such a cool one like botf.
Anyway, thanks for your help. Too bad that there isn't an update for the game, because i really won't change my OS just for this (was already hard enough to make everything else work ).
@KrazeeXXL
i don't like to update windaft (yep i don't like MS
) if it's working already perfectly fine and since it's exact the same OS than on my old PC, it must be a problem with the game and the faster hardware. That happens for many other older games too, which use old timer methods like those based on cpu cycles, which aren't working on new cpus anymore (e.g. the borland pascal runtime 200 error)But for many of them i found a workaround by either adding custom dlls to them, using compatibility mode or using them in dosbox.
Though i have the same problem on Privateer 2 the darkening. The win version lags like botf, but the dos version running in dosbox works fine.
I also read through the list of fixes from SP3 and i don't need any of them, since the PC has no InternetExplorer, no outlook, a barely never used explorer (use total commander), no need for security as it isn't connected to internet etc.
There are no hardware conflicts. I'm very sure at this one.
I'm using the latest drivers for every hardware.
I've changed already a lot of the core win functions which are listed in the group policy (gpedit.msc) and the registry to remove useless stuff like the windows help, balloon pop-ups, turned-off autoplay/automatic updates, deinstalled/deactivated IE/MSN/outlook/security center etc etc so i really don't want any update changing all this back to the default settings and making win slow again.
But as said i doubt that it's the OS, because it worked fine on the old PC.
I've manually set the BIOS to use the most stable and still quite fast settings i was able to find. (i prefer stability over speed; just a bit OCed cpu and manually set RAM timer) I won't try changing things here just for one old game
even if it's such a cool one like botf.Anyway, thanks for your help. Too bad that there isn't an update for the game, because i really won't change my OS just for this (was already hard enough to make everything else work
).-
KrazeeXXL
- BORG Trouble Maker
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:00 am
- Location: the 36th Chamber
I had this problem 2, exact the same one - galaxy view lag, trade routes werent possible...
damn, I don't really remember how I solved it. Shame on me, but I did a lot of chrashcecking in fact of other Botf-crashes in the last time, and can't really remember about it.
I got just some suggestions for you, that you could try.
Last year I reinstalled my whole pc (not only once...), in fact of "a" crash I had. I had sp2, too and don't play really much games except BotF. then it begun. Installation + I resetted all minor and major settings there are and there a loads of.
it was last year and I did not had internect connection at home to this moment, too. so security wasn't important to me, 2. After standard installation from my xp-pro (32) cd which includes sp2 I had the same problem.
then I updated service pack. yea I "don't like" ms, too. I won't contact their update server and like to buy pc-newpsapers with updates on DVD.
I don't know every updates but I'm sure that there are many not even for their optional programs no one needs. and I'm confident that Botf worked after installing SP3. (some months ago)
I can't really remember to 100% if it worked after this again. but if you won't try sp3 and the other patches out, you'll never know. I don't want to cheer ms...
another guess
hm your older pc worked. I recognised this. What mouse are you using? As I said before I think its maybe something with usb (I think there are some patches to it, too)
I use a Logitech G7 and had some lag with it the last days, too. It was because of using BOINC in the background and it's major memory usage on some projects. As I know, memory is a problem to this game. changing memory settings in BIOS won't help really in my opinion, because I think its an OS problem.
did you tried defragging RAM? do you have big memory usage all the time and running much stuff in the background?
old games running w/o problems depends most on memory managers I think.
with Wing Commander I had "some" lags and even with every possible settings in DOSBOX I wasn't able to solve this.
try defragging the BotF directory with JKdefrag (there are many settings how you can defrag files not like in the kindergarten windows defragger). I like really JKDefrag. after this, try erasing free disk space for one time and defragging the Disk again.
maybe its a general problem with your disk. Last year my Hitachi died (after 10 months!!!) and I recognised this first because the lag in Botf and long copy times I had sometimes!
there are many possibilities. Maybe some of my suggestions may help you.
sorry that I can't be more specific about this....
just some more guesses:
1. it has nothing to do with graphics
2. maybe a heat accumulation hdd/memory/core (try motherboard monitor or speedfan)
3. maybe vibrations (even little ones can kill the speed of your drives)
4. usb 2.0
maybe installing the game on another partition, would help you, too.
all things I wrote above, I did in past in fact of some problems I had to deal with. I agree that setting up a pc for one game isnt necessary. but U don't set it just up for Botf. maybe there is a major problem and its important to figure it out especially with a new pc it's really important.
good luck!
[edit:] I think it has nothing to do with the cycles[/edit]
damn, I don't really remember how I solved it. Shame on me, but I did a lot of chrashcecking in fact of other Botf-crashes in the last time, and can't really remember about it.
I got just some suggestions for you, that you could try.
Last year I reinstalled my whole pc (not only once...), in fact of "a" crash I had. I had sp2, too and don't play really much games except BotF. then it begun. Installation + I resetted all minor and major settings there are and there a loads of.
it was last year and I did not had internect connection at home to this moment, too. so security wasn't important to me, 2. After standard installation from my xp-pro (32) cd which includes sp2 I had the same problem.
then I updated service pack. yea I "don't like" ms, too. I won't contact their update server and like to buy pc-newpsapers with updates on DVD.
I don't know every updates but I'm sure that there are many not even for their optional programs no one needs. and I'm confident that Botf worked after installing SP3. (some months ago)
I can't really remember to 100% if it worked after this again. but if you won't try sp3 and the other patches out, you'll never know. I don't want to cheer ms...
another guess
hm your older pc worked. I recognised this. What mouse are you using? As I said before I think its maybe something with usb (I think there are some patches to it, too)
I use a Logitech G7 and had some lag with it the last days, too. It was because of using BOINC in the background and it's major memory usage on some projects. As I know, memory is a problem to this game. changing memory settings in BIOS won't help really in my opinion, because I think its an OS problem.
did you tried defragging RAM? do you have big memory usage all the time and running much stuff in the background?
old games running w/o problems depends most on memory managers I think.
with Wing Commander I had "some" lags and even with every possible settings in DOSBOX I wasn't able to solve this.
try defragging the BotF directory with JKdefrag (there are many settings how you can defrag files not like in the kindergarten windows defragger). I like really JKDefrag. after this, try erasing free disk space for one time and defragging the Disk again.
maybe its a general problem with your disk. Last year my Hitachi died (after 10 months!!!) and I recognised this first because the lag in Botf and long copy times I had sometimes!
there are many possibilities. Maybe some of my suggestions may help you.
sorry that I can't be more specific about this....
just some more guesses:
1. it has nothing to do with graphics
2. maybe a heat accumulation hdd/memory/core (try motherboard monitor or speedfan)
3. maybe vibrations (even little ones can kill the speed of your drives)
4. usb 2.0
maybe installing the game on another partition, would help you, too.
all things I wrote above, I did in past in fact of some problems I had to deal with. I agree that setting up a pc for one game isnt necessary. but U don't set it just up for Botf. maybe there is a major problem and its important to figure it out especially with a new pc it's really important.
good luck!
[edit:] I think it has nothing to do with the cycles[/edit]
Your situation sounds worse than mine, however even with a really fast machine, I get a lot of lag on the LARGE Galactic map. I only switch to the large map when I am setting long trade routes, then I switch back to the Small GalMap as soon as I can. I couldn't imagine playing the whole game on the large map.
-
KrazeeXXL
- BORG Trouble Maker
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:00 am
- Location: the 36th Chamber
zoom to big/small map isnt a really solution, to this. it's still unplayable and annoying.
another guess crossed my mind. try using anvir task manager. it shows you the access rate of every program has to the hdd and ram in kb/s (and many many other stuff). so you can find out whats maybe rumbling in the background of your pc you didn't known as yet.
another thing would be to reinstall complete game, because you maybe have a corrupt installation. sometimes this can happen. a copy isn't a copy to 100%
deinstall the whole game and try reinstalling it with Thunderchero's Multi Installers, you can find them all in the Download Section - they're just awesome and helped me playing BotF again after it didn't want to install again!
that's all I have at the moment. some resonance about your results would be nice. hopefully something will help you. therefor good luck from me in solving this dang problem!
another guess crossed my mind. try using anvir task manager. it shows you the access rate of every program has to the hdd and ram in kb/s (and many many other stuff). so you can find out whats maybe rumbling in the background of your pc you didn't known as yet.
another thing would be to reinstall complete game, because you maybe have a corrupt installation. sometimes this can happen. a copy isn't a copy to 100%
deinstall the whole game and try reinstalling it with Thunderchero's Multi Installers, you can find them all in the Download Section - they're just awesome and helped me playing BotF again after it didn't want to install again!
that's all I have at the moment. some resonance about your results would be nice. hopefully something will help you. therefor good luck from me in solving this dang problem!
-
Lin_Kuei_Ominae
- Cadet 1st Year
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:00 am
@KrazeeXXL
I'm using a USB Logitech MX518 mouse and USB Logitech G15 keyboard. Both are also used on my old PC (i use a KVM-switch to switch between the PCs without replugging the peripheral equipment)
I checked with Process Explorer and there are no memory problems at all. While running BOTF i still have 3 unused CPU cores and 3GB of free RAM.
There is nothing running in the background, though it seems like it even helps a bit if i run WinTV (TV card) and record in DVD quality and also play some songs with winamp.
btw, in DOSBOX it often helped me to reduce the CPU cycles (ctrl+F11). On some games i had to go down to 10% and then everything worked smooth again. Especially the mouse and graphic made problems on 100% cpu cycles. Maybe this helps you and wingcommander too.
My HDD's are fine. I'm very sure about this.
I also don't have any of the other problems you've suggested.
For now i have to keep my PC as it is, because i do my work with it and can't afford to lose 1 or 2 days due to reinstalling OS. But i'll try SP3 and other things later when i have some free time again. Then i'll also give my feedback here if i found a solution.
@TurboC
i tried it now on the small map and it's indeed a lot smoother. It still lags but it's bearable.
and since i can scroll quite fast on the small map, i can play quite normal. The only problem is, that i don't have such a good overview over all my systems anymore.
I'm using a USB Logitech MX518 mouse and USB Logitech G15 keyboard. Both are also used on my old PC (i use a KVM-switch to switch between the PCs without replugging the peripheral equipment)
I checked with Process Explorer and there are no memory problems at all. While running BOTF i still have 3 unused CPU cores and 3GB of free RAM.
There is nothing running in the background, though it seems like it even helps a bit if i run WinTV (TV card) and record in DVD quality and also play some songs with winamp.
btw, in DOSBOX it often helped me to reduce the CPU cycles (ctrl+F11). On some games i had to go down to 10% and then everything worked smooth again. Especially the mouse and graphic made problems on 100% cpu cycles. Maybe this helps you and wingcommander too.
My HDD's are fine. I'm very sure about this.
I also don't have any of the other problems you've suggested.
For now i have to keep my PC as it is, because i do my work with it and can't afford to lose 1 or 2 days due to reinstalling OS. But i'll try SP3 and other things later when i have some free time again. Then i'll also give my feedback here if i found a solution.
@TurboC
i tried it now on the small map and it's indeed a lot smoother. It still lags but it's bearable.
and since i can scroll quite fast on the small map, i can play quite normal. The only problem is, that i don't have such a good overview over all my systems anymore.
-
KrazeeXXL
- BORG Trouble Maker
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:00 am
- Location: the 36th Chamber
I don't wanted you to reinstall your whole pc, it was just an example what I did last year and then happend to the game after the reinstallation.
hm so processor usage seems to help you? this is funny the exact oposite of what I thougt. My processor is running a 100% all time high in fact of BOINC and SETI@home and the other projects. I know that there are some programs to "slow" down CPU's but all what they do in reality is to give processor useless work of 100% usage. One of it is called "CPU slow" or so I guess. maybe it will help you.
yea in DOSBOX I tried this, too. the best cycle-settings for me seem to be between 20000-30000 in most games but WC4 lagged often whatever I did. And I checked ALL settings and all combinations of possible settings which took me at least 2 days, without results. I ripped the cd's some times to isos but it don't helped., too.
to the mouse. did you tried another mouse filter driver as yet?
hm so processor usage seems to help you? this is funny the exact oposite of what I thougt. My processor is running a 100% all time high in fact of BOINC and SETI@home and the other projects. I know that there are some programs to "slow" down CPU's but all what they do in reality is to give processor useless work of 100% usage. One of it is called "CPU slow" or so I guess. maybe it will help you.
yea in DOSBOX I tried this, too. the best cycle-settings for me seem to be between 20000-30000 in most games but WC4 lagged often whatever I did. And I checked ALL settings and all combinations of possible settings which took me at least 2 days, without results. I ripped the cd's some times to isos but it don't helped., too.
to the mouse. did you tried another mouse filter driver as yet?
-
KrazeeXXL
- BORG Trouble Maker
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:00 am
- Location: the 36th Chamber
another idea, I almost written in another thread to another problem but maybe it will help here, too:
if you dont want to mess up your system with ms-patches, try using a virtual machine! I made good experiences with them. I used "vmwareserver" as I tried to load some multiplayer BotF savegames from a LAN Session some time ago. vmachines are using high processor ussage. you could install xp and sp3 on it, w/o harming your almost running system. maybe it will help you.
if you dont want to mess up your system with ms-patches, try using a virtual machine! I made good experiences with them. I used "vmwareserver" as I tried to load some multiplayer BotF savegames from a LAN Session some time ago. vmachines are using high processor ussage. you could install xp and sp3 on it, w/o harming your almost running system. maybe it will help you.