Hades is it worth the trouble?

[thunderchero]

Prometheus,

it is good to see a supporter of hades.

and yes you are correct hades 2.2 can run on direct3d settings. but falcon used fx3d as it's setting for this patch. I also understand this is not the only setting available.

next as for your claims of better graphics, prove it show screenshots.

as for claims of less crashes in combat, I know there is no way to prove this due to every battle is differant.

this post was not started for end user to stop using hades, it was made to determine if hades should be a standard in mods.

thunderchero

[Prometheus]

1. It is my opinion that u should put direct3d as a standard in hades 2.2, and then see what ppl will say about crashes.
3dfx is a support for a voodoo graphics anyways.

2. I will provide screenshots as soon as I get to make some...
May take a while, since I am not rly so much interested into graphic quality as much as stability.

3. With h3d2.2 on direct3d there were no combat crashes for hours of playing mp; Combats with both two human against one ai [klingon/romulan vs. federation] we had more than ten combats together, and at least so much separately if not even more. Not a single battle crash, just a few random map ones.

4. As for making it standard in mods: over a time of several years, we have always been using hades even when we thought giving it a try without, it proved much more stable and in time it got our total respect. At least for us, it would make life simplier to include it in mods.

Anyhow, I doubt we'll stop using it and we look forward to see what new versions will bring...

[KrazeeXXL]

hm DIRECT3D as secondary option in Hades 2.2?

I really would like to test it out, too! As yet I thought that there is no possibility to do so...

Grapic improvements? I totally agree to Prometheus because I don't care, too, it's about the f****** stability!

by the way good testings with many cards - Prometheus

and

thanks for sharing your results with us here!

and

welcome to the forum of AFC \\//-

opens a barrel of BLOODWINE


QAPLA'

[thunderchero]

As for making it standard in mods: over a time of several years, we have always been using hades even when we thought giving it a try without, it proved much more stable and in time it got our total respect. At least for us, it would make life simplier to include it in mods.

but you do not have to deal with all the problems that would follow. that is why hades is being removed from mods and both versions of hades will still be availible for those who still want to use it.

so this should be a decision of user to install hades or not. not a standard

just a note also I would have agreed with you 2 years ago but new video cards are having too many problems with hades any version.

thunderchero

[Flocke]

and yes you are correct hades 2.2 can run on direct3d settings

Interesting, why nobody mentioned this before? Would be funny if this setting works on my geforce8400M GS

Isn't there a coder to supply us with a modern graphics engine?

[thunderchero]

and yes you are correct hades 2.2 can run on direct3d settings

Interesting, why nobody mentioned this before? Would be funny if this setting works on my geforce8400M GS

Isn't there a coder to supply us with a modern graphics engine?

I doubt if it would make any differance due to version of mpr97, mpr555, mpr565 is the same as hades 1.1 they just added support for glide and permedia devices.

So setting hades 2.2 to direct3d would be the same as using hades 1.1. You would just have unused files.

thunderchero

[Prometheus]

1. Direct3d support in hades is provided by mprd3d.mpr file. Other mpr*.dll files r only interfaces for graphics, and contain nothing more than links to these true *.mpr graphics algorithms - including selection for various color settings [so one could make game go faster on a slow computer]. Respectfully, 3dfx is provided by gr3dfx.mpr, permedia 2 support by mprp2.mpr and software emulation functions by gen.mpr. By choosing 3D=software/3dfx/direct3d one directs graphic interface to use one of those hardware hooks. Vanilla dlls r so generic that they didn't even provide a support for at least direct3d [it came with hades 1.1 first].

2. It may seem that these files r of the same version, if one looks at attributes and version description. But that will only evade ur reasoning, since microprose didn't rly bother numbering them for changes that much. Anyway, if one takes a look at the size and dates of those dlls, and explore them with any resource hacker, one can see how much falcon's dlls r better than those of vanilla botf. At least, they r larger by a half. After all, falcon required much better support for 3d functions, since it was a true 3d game [speaking in terms of a decade old game].

3. Nothing else I can provide useful here, but my experience. If I find a single graphic card that doesn't work with direct3d in hades 2.2, I will report it. Unfortunatelly, even the newest 260 series works, so I can't.

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

I'm a bit confused here.

1.) If hades 2.2 can run on direct3d setting (maybe even better than 1.1), for what reason we keep still hades 1.1?

2.) If one run a hades installation on software setting, will game still crash if size of some gif file is larger than 256x256?

3.) Is BoP hades-compatible or not? - Contradictory statements in threads -> regarding incorrect pixel size of textures.

4.) Concerning improved stability by 256x256 gifs. I have to correct myself.

I checked the files of my old game installation (very stable-> NEVER any research screen crashes, no random crashes in tactical combat - during about seven years of intensive usage) and found it used 512x512gifs! (& No hades)

So the vital point is: What actually causes crashes like here? (below)

1. Original game engine, software setting: rendering graphics awful, random and constant crashes, almost every few turns, quite frustrating;

I found my hob files modified to use _a.gifs exclusively, as suggested here: http://www.members.aon.at/zelli/ships.htm
Scroll down to Texture -> below "xx1_a.hob"
(I think the texture mod from Joker's page included this change, but I'm not sure atm)

So the question is: Is it possible that an decreasing of used gifs per ship can increase stability?
I.e. that the number of gif “switchingsâ€

[thunderchero]

1. more options for video cards

2. yes, game will crash with 512x512 gifs if hades files are installed regardless of settings in ini.

3. multi is compatabile not gowron's manual install files.

EDIT had more time to finish comments

I'm a bit confused here.

Don't worry you are not only one

4.) Concerning improved stability by 256x256 gifs. I have to correct myself.

I checked the files of my old game installation (very stable-> NEVER any research screen crashes, no random crashes in tactical combat - during about seven years of intensive usage) and found it used 512x512gifs! (& No hades)

this does not surprise me....

So the vital point is: What actually causes crashes like here? (below)

1. Original game engine, software setting: rendering graphics awful, random and constant crashes, almost every few turns, quite frustrating;

I wish I knew, there are so many possibilities. video card, the system it self, install, version patch used.......ect. take your pick

I found my hob files modified to use _a.gifs exclusively, as suggested here: http://www.members.aon.at/zelli/ships.htm
Scroll down to Texture -> below "xx1_a.hob"
(I think the texture mod from Joker's page included this change, but I'm not sure atm)

So the question is: Is it possible that an decreasing of used gifs per ship can increase stability?
I.e. that the number of gif “switchingsâ€

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

Thanks for the clarification.

[zozozo]

hmm i'm using hades 1.1 direct3d and i get crashes every 5-6 tactical combat battles - if i were to change to either hades 2.2 or software would i get better stability?

[thunderchero]

this is all video card dependent. best just to use software in my opinion

thunderchero

[Nick2730]

i installed the multi today, tried using 2.2 hades or whatever its highest version was on installer, go to first combat bam instant crash.

285gtx

[Karstedt]

I can't tell what the difference is between the two hades patches and vanilla. I run BotF on a laptop with integrated graphics and an old desktop with a GF 6 series card and other than the laptop running a bit slower in large fleet battles I don't experience any noticeable difference between different settings and crashes are virtually non-existent when using any version of the game that has dumped the 512 textures.

I haven't actually read any thorough docs on what the hades patches do, so I can't even speak to weather or not they accomplish what they set out to. Perhaps if I ran the game on my main rig with newer video cards I'd have issues.

[thunderchero]

I don't experience any noticeable difference between different settings and crashes are virtually non-existent when using any version of the game that has dumped the 512 textures.

just a note on his comment, all versions of multi uses 256 textures

and I agree 256 textures helped as much as either hades patch for crashes, but many users will use nothing but hades.

thunderchero