Borg vs. AI

[Killer]

Hello, I am not sure if this question has already been raised, but is it possible to make AI somehow effective against the Borg? I have just played large All the Ages MOD and on turn 264 I got a message that Cardassiand are no more. 20 turns later, still without any contact I used a cheat to check the map just to see Ferengi space attacked by 4 Borg spheres. On vanilla maps, I have usually been able to intercept Borgs in time before they multiplied, even in other races terriotories. But on these large maps it is impossible. For now, I have turned the Borg off but I was wondering if it is possible to make some command for the AI like if Borg detected then build ships of X strength and attack?

[stardust]

I'l have to admit the Borg are still problematic on AAM if they turn up before the AI have advanced to the later techs if you start an early game but if they get to the latter techs I have seen the AI fend off a Borg sphere and even the Planet Killer with a fleet of about 100 ships.

The most advanced level of starbase on the mod is able to hold it's own and kill off a Borg ship if you do combat manually.

The problem isn't that the Borg are overpowered but one of the AI being too dumb to coalesce their fleet and hit them in force quickly.

[Killer]

Yup, I always start at the lowest tech (ENT era). so that would explain it. But I have got myself to light cruisers III and I think that AI should have at least light cruisers II. But the technology is useless, if the AI does not build enough ships to defeat the Borg. And the problem is that if the first cube/sphere is not killed, it will multiply and multiply... :-(

[KrazeeXXL]

Sounds like a huge map full of BORG vessels
should be ok. If you killed one, you can kill them all. But as we know the BORG are able to show in turn 50 so this should be adapted somehow. hm... perhaps changing the Borg Counter could help a bit. (if its possible)

Within the huge maps the AI shows its weaknesses even more then in the normal large maps. I hope we can do something about it in the future. I've never seen the AI beaten the BORG. So it was always my challenge to solve this problem. And I have to agree to Killer that it isn't possible to rescue them while playing a huge map.

I dunno what can be done with the AI. But I think that the possibilities are very limited. Also some balancing issues have to be solved for huge maps.
So CS2 and TT2 need a new range. Also, I still dislike Mentats idea for UDM 3 for T1 with setting TT1 and CS1 to low and 1! that's ridiculous, unplayable and not even canon.
I mean who wants to build a starbase next to a starbase while getting 1 ridiculous point of range to build another starbase in to get... you know what I mean...

So imo some problems can be avoided w/o much efforts.
F.e.: speed 3 should be more common with the most (better advanced) ships. Take speed 4 for some more of the "Uber-Ships". Don't constrict speed 4 for only 1/2 ships per empire. thats too less imo. Let us do small steps and have 2/3 ships with a speed of 4
There's still low/mid and high settings... imagine an uber-ship with speed 4 and low (I know its exaggerated )

I would like to find a solution for normal big maps and new huge ones. I know that you can't have everything. So I would like to discuss this whole topic.

[thunderchero]

KrazeeXXL,

I am not the best person to reply to your comments (I almost never play T1 games), But first thing I did when I do play them is to build research centers on home system. Then make sure it is all going to propulsion research this will get you range the quickest. With little effort by turn 15 I had tech 2 propulsion whlie some mods (latest version of UDM) you may need tech 3 but when updated tech 2 will give short range of 2.

This can also be edited very easy with UE by opening trek.exe and edit "edit/game /ship map range".

thunderchero

[Killer]

Yup, I have just tried the UDM 3 and I am also having a trouble at the lowest level. When I finally built my first outpost I could not believe that is has done nearly nothng for my ships range :-) But I suppose the same applies for AI, so I will play and see.
Anyway, back to the Borg. Would be possible at least to tell the game to always spawn the first cube/sphere in the player's territory? This way we would get the fun without weakening the weak AI even more.

[Mentat]

While I personally find it totally reasonable and canon that at lower techlevels warpspeed and shiprange are quite limited compared to later periods, Thunder and I have already amended UDM about 2 or 3 weeks ago and as he has layed out, the early shiprange increases now at a new pace.

Nevertheless, you won't get around trying new strategies when playing on huge maps, ... and this is more then important when you have the BORG on in a T1 game. While already in Vanilla it could happen that the Borg overwhelm the map, in UDML you surely need to prepare for them if they are activated. The "Borg-Sphere" as seen in UDM is a considerably tougher opponent(much more hullpoints) then the vanilla Borg-Cubes. On the other hand, UDM features greatly enhanced shielding for spaceships, thus this was necesssary to keep them terrifying.

As Stardust has already stated for AAM, in UDM a Starbase will have a good chance to defend itself sucessfully versus a Sphere, Species 8472 etc.

[Killer]

Well yes, I usually do not have problem with the Borg. But the AI does. It usually gets wiped out withou my assistance. Which is strange, because last time on a normal map in AAM I was attacked by 50 light cruisers and sometimes even escorted by 25 destroyers. This force alone should take out the Borg in no time. So far, I have just turned the Borg off. Maybe sometime the AI can be made smarter