Any ideas how to improve the UDM cannon maps?

This forum is for outdated or irrelevant Modding Information that may or may not be 3 months old.

Moderator: thunderchero

Post Reply
Mentat
Commander
Commander
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 2:00 am

Post by Mentat »

Now more then half a year has passed, and I haven't even thought about BOTF and UDM anymore. Though during the last days, I spontanously remembered that there was something left to do here.

Looking through DCERs newest UE and the threads, I started asking myself, is there still interest in a new version of this scenario?

Though life is still going rough on me, I do see a slim silvery line on the horizon, and might even find time for moding activities in the near future.

Any ideas how to improve that map?
Any volunteers to aid me in that matter?
Dominion Wars - Scenario
to be released for UDM3.0.1a !
User avatar
Spocks-cuddly-tribble
Code Master
Code Master
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:00 am

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble »

Hi Mentat,

I'd suggest, if at all, keep it a realistic and stress free project.

We Oldies just are trying to keep this great and immortal community alive with occasional contributions.

For me it's only a "solve a riddle" code thing (works great against cephalea by slight colds, btw).

Cheers!

PS: If you're considering updating UDM with recent fixes / modding options, I'd advice you with a link list of the suggested updates.
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
User avatar
xDx
Commander
Commander
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 2:00 am
Location: East Coast, USA

Post by xDx »

Hello Mentat,

I have been playing UDMIII for a couple of weeks now and just recently tried the betas on your Dominion War scenario. First off, of course, you did an amazing job with this even as beta. Furthermore, I'm not going to critique what you already know needs fixing i.e. Dominion rebalance, Romulan trade routes, special structures etc. Not sure if my thoughts were made to you already if so I apologize. But a suggestion for the imbalance for Feds if this is possible. Have Feds start at least one tech level lower than rest of empires (at least in SP) and maybe MP also. Also when game starts the scout, surveyor, etc can't see the 8 squares around home system on the first turn (second turn normal). Is that intentional? Not a biggie something that can be fixed in UE easily I believe. Also the Bak'U have 0 initial pop growth. That I'm guessing is intentional for their longevity but just thought I'd mention it. I won't pretend I know what I'm talking about when it comes to coding and making fixes ( I suck). Maybe everything I'm saying is just dumb but I just started posting so I am behind the eight ball a bit! But I would be interested in offering my assistance to do testing for you if you decide to remake the scenarios.

Thanks,
xdarktrooperx
Mentat
Commander
Commander
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 2:00 am

Post by Mentat »

Ok, I made some experimental changes to the existing map, just to see if anything could be done to even out the chances of the empires with the existing spread of minors.

And I must say, this went pretty well. I raised the starting techlevel of all majors but the Feds and the Cardassians to 2. I also changed the initial Latinum each empire has to spend. And voila, I was able to keep up with the powermongering Federation as Klingon and Romulan.

At around turn 300 all empires had developed quite according to canon borders (with some limitations). Fed/Kli/Rom/Dom all had about 20-24 systems, and compareable techlevels and military power. The Cardassian AI, ... was mangled quite a bit (13-15 systems), and failed to develope in some key areas, aswell as in conquering bajor. In one game (Kli) they were limited to canon borders by the feds, and stayed in constant war with them. In my second game(Rom) they were bashed heavily by the canon Fed/Kli alliance, that also gave me a hard time as Romulan, and the Klingons had taken several(3) outlying Cardassian colonies in the dispute. Still the Cardassians managed to keep both powers from advancing further, until I made contact, and naturally they instantly asked me to wage war against the alliance. As for the Dominion, they developed slow, but steady, and their science and military prowess is impressiv, as such I expect quite a struggle, when they reach the alpha quadrant.

As for your questions xdarktrooperx, most things you added to the existing bugs/problems are intentional (no scanned areas at the start, Ba'ku 0% pop growth, etc.). While some problems are easy to solve, some are beyond my powers at the moment (at least with the existing map). And its mainly the multiple special buildings for the Romulans that bother me. While its irrelevant for many many turns(one just dosn't have the liberty to build multiple structures), as soon as one has consolidated his Romulan empire, building multiple Alliance headquaters, Reman mining facilities, etc. and Minor special structures definitely open all gates to cheat (which is at least for MP inacceptable). For a SP games I can only advice to not make use of those bugs, ...

To fix that multiple structure bug, and aswell the double trade route bug (which is a minor one), it would most likely need a new map, made of an amanded trex.exe and stbof.res. This also stands true for changed minors. Thats a bit out of my scope at the moment, thus I will amend the exisiting map a bit more and release those files to the comunity.

Raising the Dominion starting techlevel to 3, and the Cardassian starting techlevel to 2 is still an option that I will test. But I feel that some imbalance between the powers might be prudent to keep, else we might have Caradassia push through Fed territory without any help from the Dominion.

As to close this lengthy post, I feel that those changes already made the scenario more playable and much more fun, most likely enough to give it a go for release.

I'd rather prefer to put more energy in another project, a smaller map, for the Klingon civilwar, with a strong emphasize on MP games. But thats something I would like to discuss with Thunder first.
Dominion Wars - Scenario
to be released for UDM3.0.1a !
User avatar
xDx
Commander
Commander
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 2:00 am
Location: East Coast, USA

Post by xDx »

Mentat I hope everything is going better for you! Thanks for the information on the map I eagerly wait for the official release. For the scenario is there a way you can make Bajor already at war with Cardassia for the start of the map? Bajor could have pop around 600 so if Cards conquer them that could create a little advantage to them as the other empires have their own being a higher tech (except Feds of course). Multiple special buildings you could double the cost for them (energy and industry) to hinder MP from building them again and again? A map of the Klingon civil war? That sounds ambitious as I'm guessing their would be two Klingon empires to play? As for my offer to test for you still stands whichever project you decide to work on.
Mentat
Commander
Commander
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 2:00 am

Post by Mentat »

xdarktrooperx wrote:A map of the Klingon civil war? That sounds ambitious as I'm guessing their would be two Klingon empires to play? As for my offer to test for you still stands whichever project you decide to work on.
Its not so ambitious, since Thunderchero has already made a respective Mod -> Uncivil Wars. So all that it really needs is some of the latest fixes and a nice setup for the map. As it was with the scenario for UDM, I won't be doing anything for UCW without Thundercheros consent and I will definitely get back on your offer to test, keep tuned.

@spockscuddlytribble
Thanks for the advice SCT. As stated in my earlier post, I am not going to make any changes to UDM, since this would be quite beyond my plans and my mandate is this matter. Its Thundercheros Mod, and thus I would never attempt to change it, without his consent and his know how. Nevertheless should Thunder ever decide to further develope either UCW or UDM, I would be clearly offering my assistance once again, since I remember having an excellent time aiding him with UDMIII and getting invaluable help from his side when developing the scenario for UDMIII.

As for the latest discoveries, ... I should be grateful for a link to the most prominent ones, ... one never knows.
Last edited by Mentat on Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:23 am, edited 4 times in total.
Dominion Wars - Scenario
to be released for UDM3.0.1a !
User avatar
xDx
Commander
Commander
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 2:00 am
Location: East Coast, USA

Post by xDx »

Oh wow I haven't looked into that one yet. Sounds like it might be another one to consume my free time. :)
Post Reply

Return to “Modding Information Archive”