Defense & Agility in ship combat???

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Gurgeh
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Defense & Agility in ship combat???

Post by Gurgeh » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:31 am

Hey there.

In a recent post ('Tweaking hidden ship stats, values & attributes' 101) I began seeking a little bit of help and advice on the statistics vessels have in BotF that come into play during combat as I'd decided to 'tweak' some of them to make battles seem more 'realistic' (yeah, I know... :) ) as some of the various classes seemed either more powerful or weaker than I felt they should be.
Anyway, at one point in that post I mentioned Defense and Agility and said "their titles speak fairly adequately of their function". At the time (not having thus far thought overmuch on the subject) that seemed true.

Last night, however, after browsing through a number of threads in the Modding forum, I happened across part of a post from someone (I forget exactly who :? ) which said that "the Defense value is a modifier that decreases the chance of being hit by enemy weapons during combat". Okay, I hear you say, fairly obvious. Then it occurred to me that Agility is also a modifier that decreases the chance of being hit by enemy weapons during combat...
This started me wondering how Defense and Agility interact in the game when the program resolves tactical combat and it wasn't long before I realised that both values are quite a bit more complex than I'd previously realised...

Take 'defense' for instance. It represents a ship's defensive capabilities with regard to a hostile's likelihood of scoring a hit in an engagement and has nothing to do with how tough it is (in terms of shields and hull strength) or how well armed it is weapons-wise. (If, instead of a
starship, we were talking about a modern fighter-jet or submarine it would
cover such things as ECM (electronic counter-measures) or design elements that contribute to the craft being that much more difficult to target successfully.) In the Star Trek universe, we almost always hear at least once in any battle of any significant length talk of 'acquiring (or
losing) a weapons-lock', and even once such a lock is established both torpedoes and directed energy weapons can still miss. I've never come across any references in either TV, film or novels to what we could call 'space ECM' so that may or may not be involved, but that still leaves the design of the ship which could contribute to it's Defense value. Things such as size, configuration, hull composition, shield harmonics, etc, etc would affect it either positively or negatively. Also special features such as 'stealth technology' would add to what could be called 'passive ECM', after all if it's harder to detect, it's more difficult to shoot at!

On to 'agility', which when you think about it, is even more complicated than I'd first assumed. It would perhaps be better called 'combat manoeuvrability' as that's what it really is. It presumably gives both a defensive bonus (the whole 'moving target' thing) and an offensive one (modifying the various weapons values) as a more agile combatant can both more easily evade incoming fire and manage to achieve a far more favourable attack position.

I'm curious to know if anyone has played around with Defense and Agility, and what they found out when they did. Do the two values interact when combat is being resolved? Has anyone figured out how they operate? How does the game process them, are they applied directly, as it were, or (like crew experience and damage control) are either of them used in conjunction with another value, perhaps one stored in trek.exe or one of the files in stbof.res that relates to another aspect of the particular ship type such as 'Ship Function' for instance (ie Destroyer, Strike Cruiser, Command Ship, etc) ???

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Post by stardust » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:00 am

Well from my own experiennces the higher the defense value of a ship, the harder it is for you to score a hit, regardless of how agile it is.

For example, while developing All the Ages accidentally gave the Negh'Var a devense value of 1100 (a typo) so while testing the tactical combat, I had one of these run into a starbase III.

Now even though it was outgunned by the starbase 20-1 and the starbase having 30x combined sheild and armour value, and not being overly maneuvarable, because it had a stupidly high defense value the Starbase failed to register a single hit while the Negh'var eventually knocked out the shields and destroyed the base.

Agility, again the higher the value the faster it can pull off maneuvers, particulary 'evade'. Hence why the Vanilla Defiant was a nightmare to destroy 8O

I would point out though, that having played this game so long I'd say Agility is aslo dependant on the typs of starship.

I've seen scouts using Evade and literally turning on the spot whilst evading, while cruisers just sit there lumbering around when evading.

There's been plenty of times where I've had destroyers with an agility of 100 evade with some speed, while a colony ship with the same agility value 'evading' just turns very slowly on the spot.

Retreating as well, again, scouts and destroyers take an evasive course at speed before going to warp, while everything else slowly makes a course adjustment on the spot (and getting the s**t kicked out of it) before going to warp.
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Gowron
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Post by Gowron » Fri May 01, 2009 8:04 am

Influence of defense values on hit probability:
http://armadafleetcommand.com/onscreen/ ... topic&t=75
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DOT
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Post by DOT » Tue May 05, 2009 10:10 am

Hello,

I got some questions:
Is the factor of 0,01 fixed through formula or is it a value stored in trek.exe?
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Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble » Tue May 05, 2009 12:07 pm

DOT wrote:I got some questions:
Is the factor of 0,01 fixed through formula or is it a value stored in trek.exe?
Unknown yet, but try the value at 0x17B698 (8 bytes / default 0.01) and report back. :wink:
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DOT
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Post by DOT » Thu May 07, 2009 5:28 pm

I am sorry, but 0x17B698 won't change anything.
Tested with value upt to 0.1 or 1 and made always the same damage at range 450 and had the same hit chance...

Do you got another value to play with?
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Spocks-cuddly-tribble
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Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble » Fri May 08, 2009 10:13 am

Pity, it changes only Hit probability on paper(tevent.txt) but without real effect.:(

You could try also 0x1835C4 & 0x18360C, but its just a shot in the dark.
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DOT
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Post by DOT » Sat May 09, 2009 5:37 am

Again I am sorry that I cannot report any success... :oops:

BTW: 0x17B698 gaves me in tevent.txt the same damage and hit probability with changed values. Did I get your last post wrong or have you made other experience?
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