UDM Dominion War Scenario Beta Test - for 3.0.1c and 3.0.1d

[Mentat]

Bugs/features/whatever you want to call them...
M Class planets neededing terra forming
Roms start with no cash.
Map zooms not too good... too small even when played on a 22inch monitor! (edited to 50 pixels to improve it).
The 2 trades from Romulus can only trade with one planet other planet... weird.
Thermalvents cannot be built on some systems where they should (example Romi and Terix).

A.) Many M-class planets will need Terraforming, that is intended.

B.) At what starting level(T1-T5) are you talking about? Will be fixed!

C.) The map-zoom is something you can handle when you install UDM. Thanks to Thunder you do have an option for a larger view there.

D.) Never had a any trouble with trade routes so far, but will keep an eye on that.

E.) Some buildings have requirements that might not be fullfilled when you first colonize a system(e.g.: you only terraform one planet(class-m) and no vulcanic planet for now) then you wont be able to build the respective building until you have terraformed the vulcanic planet. I have also had the experience that this fails. In this case you might want to save/reload the game and it should become available.

On the gamereport: its both encouraging and dissapointing to me(in regards of the map).

1.) The Federation is clearly a pretty tough opponent(thats basically good). But I found they are too easy to play and a tick to hard to compete with.

2.) Cardassians went down quick: thats a rare occation. In other words, I havent had any reports or sightings of a Major empire being destroyed.

3.) Dominion developes slow(too slow), but it does expand effectively after a aweful long period(turns 250-350). This needs to get fixed, since the idea is, that while the Alpha quadrant powers struggle for control, the Dominion should build up a huge empire and arrive in great force to place immediate pressure on the others.

4.) Too few Minors for Romulans, Klingons and Dominion. This needs a fix aswell, to allow reasonable development of those empires.

[sanityfreezone]

Just to add, I had the issue with the Double Romulan trade route thing..

[Chernabog]

Hi again,

I guess its T1 from the save, yeah must have been as all the tech was low. It doesnt realy make much difference with the cash at the start, just a wee bit slower to get the first colony ships out.

I could probably have saved the Cardys if I had attacked the Feds, but as I didnt have much of a fleet at the time I didn't start it ... then got all that lovely cash from the friendship agreement ... hard to part with that

I didnt notice an option to change the zoom when I installed UDM, could well have missed that though (and it was easy to change with UE anyway).

The volcanic planet thing is definetly an issue, use the planet Terix as an example. Even when fully terrafrormed and the relevant tech is researched, you cannot build Thermal vents there (and it does have a 40 pop volcanic planet). Its as though the computer does not know that a volcanic planet is there ...

Also One other feature I forgot to add ... weirdness to do with buildings that are home or planet specific (i.e. Alliance council or Remain facility or any minors special building). You can build the building no probs, but it does not leave the build list... so you can build it again, and again etc. It does not seem to actualy create a second facility though, it just never leaves the build list (so something in some registry somewhere is not getting flagged).

All of the points are minor though tbh and dont really detract from the fun... this is probably the most strategic game I have played for a long while as they usualy end up in a messy war a few turns after first contact. I'm enjoying the technology race in this one

Regards,

C.

[sanityfreezone]

regarding the wormhole, has anyone noticed the AI making use of it yet?

[galen]

I have yet to see the AI utilize the wormholes ever, from vanilla to UDMIII and quite frankly, I don't know why. I always put a Starbase on both ends as soon as possible, definitely on my end when I come across one. Even if the exit point of the wormhole is smack dab in the middle of their empire, they never come through and that sucks. just imagine the battle sequence of a large invasion fleet engaging the Starbase and your defense forces with the wormhole in the background... That would be a sick sight to see!

And Whats the deal with the AI only building Outposts? Even on impossible I have never had them build a Starbase, while I usually have 20 scattered throughout my territory.

[Chernabog]

Back again

I have been scribbling notes down on the back of an envolope whilst the game develops, hopefully I havent missed anything.

Right, were did I get to, ah yes...

Turn 355 and the third colonisation expansion is complete. I am definelty not colonising another planet... im sick of it, its subjugation from now on. Oh and the Zakdorn and Flaxians are also both now members of the empire.

Cheat point info, I'm at tech 7-8, 44 systems with 3 minors, Feds still have 34 systems with 11 minors, Klings 27 systems with no minors (what did happen to those naughty Norisicans...) and the Doms 22 systems with 1 minor. It doesnt seem like the war between the Feds and Klings is leading to very much, one system lost and allot of skirmishing is all.

Turn 372 I have found another minor, the Tilani, but they are affiliated with the Feds, so I need to chnage that situation quickly.

Turn 374 I blunder into the Dominion.

Turn 375 I have non aggresion with the Doms and extort some cash from them.

Turn 380 The Tilani join the Empire They are now my most westerly outpost, the likely focal point from any Dominion advances.

Turn 388 I turn down (yet another) demand from the federation. They wanted 30k+ so I told them to (diplomatically) shove it. The diplomatic stance is now icey...

Turn 393 I meet the Caladonians! They are a long way off and friends with the Feds but it seems somone else has an eye on them... notably 60+ Dominion ships helping to construct an outpost in the next sector.

Turn 394 The Imperial fleet masses along the neutral zone, more than 40 troop transports supported by the latest and greatist that the Empire can muster (some 80 warships of various flavours). The Tal Shiar is blamed for assasinating a Dominion diplomat so I through them a friendship agreement with a bonus to see if they bite.

Turn 396 They didnt... damn.

Turn 399 The Feds win the technology race with the sighting of the first Dreadnought class vessel. Its time to turnup the heat and the Tal Shiar are unleashed.

Turn 400 War is declared on the Federation, to the delight of both the Klingons and Dominon. Two fleets simultaneously cross the border, one headed for Calder, the other to Bolarus.

Turn 403 The pathetic defenses of Calder are swept away and it is succesfully invaded.

Turn 404 Bolarus is mine, without hardly a fight. The 2nd fleet moves to strike Teeneba.

Turn 405 THE BATTLE FOR TEENEBA! My brave fleet of 40 odd ships comes out of warp, stays cloaked, turns around and does a runner. Yes, the Feds have a lot of ships. At Teeneba it was 113 command vessels, 65 fast attack and I didnt have time to count all the strike cruisers... but there were lots of them as well

Turn 407 The first fleet has more success and after wacking an outpost and killing a few million Benzites, Benzar is now mine. I tested the Feds stomach for a fight by sending them a dismissive non aggression request... and they accepted it (the war with the klingons must not be going too smoothly). Also on this turn I recieve a distress call from the Caladonians, they have been overun by the Dominion.

Turn 408 The Tal Shiar is relegated to guard duty after continued failures, including the loss of some 14k credits from the Imperial treasury. Looks like I need to beef up intel a little bit more.

Turn 413 I am oh so near being closer on par technologically with the Feds. The Doms want to be friends, ah thats nice

Turn 425 In the same turn both the Klingons and Domionion offer me a war pact against the Feds. I agree to both, and my new and improved warbirds head for Drylax. The Doms are heading for Fereginar.

Turn 426 A momentus turn. Drylax is taken and 1, special Federation ship has been destroyed. The Feds sent 13 Galaxy class Advanced explorers to Benzar, and on encoutering superior odds decided to retreat, but not withought loosing the USS Enterpise

No need to cheat anymore as I can see everyone, I have 49 systems with 6 minors, Feds have 30 systems with 9 minors, klings have 28 systems with 1 minor (the Orians) and the Doms have 26 sytems with 2 minors. Oh yes and I found the Nausican homeworld... there was no one left alive on it.

Turn 427 1 turn away from a joint battle for Ferenginar and the Dominion is bribed by the Federation into signing a non aggression pact (the fools, with the fleet I was sending to help they would have easily won).

Turn 430 Peace is signed yet again between the Romulan Star Empire and the United Federation Of planets. Its back to the cold war, but this time my agents are starting to have some succcess

Bit of a long post, sorry about that, but I am having some fun with this game. I decided also to turn on random events on this last turn, it will be interesting to see what occurs from now on.

Oh yes, one more thing about the volcanic planet/thermal vents problem. Found another system (Psi Octanis), which has no volcanic planets, however I can build a thermal vent there...

Off doing tree surveying tomorrow so probs wont be able to play again for a few days... looking forward to the Borg turning up though

C.

[Mentat]

Wow, really a nice and intriguing report Chernabog, thanks for making up that AAR. It reminds me, that I have to look into tha map sooner or later and fix what has to be done, and more so, it reassures me, that with a dedicated bunch of you it will be possible to recreate accurate borders and developments of the empires in the Alpha Quadrant, just right before the Dominion War. ANd maybe another save starting earlier with Bajoran indepence and right before the Klingon invasion of Cardassian space.

What worries me, is the multiple buildability of some structures, since they actually do add up. I had that in my game aswell, and thought it might be a one time bug, I now realize that was a false asumption. I need to talk to Thunder about this, if it is UDM related or a bug in my map. The problem with the thermal vents, is mildly said ignoreable.

[Chernabog]

Hmm... return of the useless AI (shame).

Turn 432 I enter into an Alliance with the Dominion.

Turn 433 The Klingons are now my friends.

Turn 438 Level 10 Tech all round (Finally). The Imperial Navy gets a complete overhaul, only heavy or advanced kit is now required, everything else is scrapped, along with all research facilites (apart from subatomic sims etc). This huge pile of cash gets spent on Reman warbirds amongst other things

Turn 454 The non aggression between myself and the Feds ends and raiding starts

Turn 457 Dom ships are all over the place, I try to get them into a war pact with the Feds but they are after the Klings. I declare war anyway and invade Teneeba succesfully. The Massive Fed fleet does nothing...

At this point I tried out a direct attack against the huge Fed fleet. Out numbered 3 to 1 I lost everything but did do some (but not enough) damage. It also was slow going, seemed to tax my computer somewhat. I tried everything to get them to split up but they would'nt budge from Sirius. So I reloaded from a save and...

Turn 472 SOL falls... The Feds could have easily stopped me, but decided for some reason not to.

At this point I gave up, not much fun if they just sit there looking dumb and battles with 300-400 ships in are not particularily playable. Turning on Ranodm events didn't achieve much in the time it was on, lots of earthquakes and terrorist attacks but I didn't see any Borg or anything.

One other feature I found (which I think is a problem in UDM anyway, cant remeber though) you cant build a Protectorate HQ on SOL.

I will try the Cardassians next, with Randoms on from the start.

Regards,

C.

[ZeroChance]

@ Chernabog

Home systems are regarded differently than normal systems... I don't know the details but they have their own designation or something, which is why you can't build protectorate HQ's on conquered homeworlds.

Also, great in-depth reports! They were a very entertaining read. I found that many of your observations mirrored mine. I can't wait until someone organizes an mp game with the saves

[sanityfreezone]

Just starting a single player Cardassian game now. No problems so far, but very slow start, just colonising leftwards and away from the other big powers for now and slowly building up a force to take Bajor. Should make some more progress on my MP game tomorrow.

[Chernabog]

Hi Again,

Been playing the single player Cardy game over the last few days, not as much fun tbh, the Cardys get a real bad deal compared to the Roms.

Turn 53 Met the Feds, they have 7 systems with 1 minor, I have 8 systems with no minors.

Meeting the Feds early on was not pleasent, I spent the next 200 odd turns trying to keep them at bay. There was no outright declaration of war (unless you count the trill who for some reason decided to have a go at me) but quite allot of skirmishing and general unpleasentness ... at no point did they offer or accept any kind of treaty, only my static line of outposts and meagre fleet kept them out.

Turn 274 Out of the blue, the Feds offer me Friendship!

I was just about to expect the inevitable invasion at this point,well over 100 ships on trill and my fleet of 20/30 odd would not have stood a chance (technologicaly underwhelming). The reason for this change in fortune? Well that would have been the Klingons and Romulans...

I cheated at this point to see what was going on. I had 18 systems with 1 minor (and the Katarians nearly mine), the Feds had 20 systems with 10 minors, Klings 23 systems but no minors, Roms 18 systems but no minors and the Doms 9 systems but no minors.

Turn 278 Roms and Klings declare war on the Feds. Now I know where that huge Fed fleet is headed Peace reigns in the Union, money flows and the people get fat and happy (considering Cardassia had been Apathetic for the last 200 turns, this was a cause for celebration). A huge program of science upgrades are speeded up as the Bajoran invasion fleet just needs level 5 technology (for BC II and TT II).

Turn 280 Bajor is mine, but the feds aren't happy about my 'heavy handed treatment' of the bajorans ... I only killed 30 million or so, plus of course letting the Obsidian order remove certain malcontents

With freedom from invasion I spent many turns doing exploration and research, whilst building up a viable fleet ready to enter the wormhole...

Turn 351 The Fahleen system is wiped out by a super nova... bugger. It also appears that Romulus has been taken by the Federation. They may have done this some time earlier (and I just didn't notice) but it seems that the Roms have been given a bit of a kicking.

Did another cheat, and decided to look about the map. The Roms have kind of had it, they still have systems but no real fleet. The Klings still look strong, but are no mach for the Feds. I have 20 systems with 4 minors (and 2 more being sweet talked) the Feds have 24 systems with 11 minors, The Klings 25 systems with 2 minros, the Roms 16 systems but no minors and the Doms 18 systems with 1 minor (the Breen). Oh and the Borg have turned up... The poor Baku's are being assimilated.

Turn 362 My initial fleet enters the wormhole... but its dominon teritory on the other side so I cant make an outpost... damn, that sort of screwed my invasion plan, will have to think of a plan B.

There was no realy change in the galaxy, apart from me gaining 2 more minors (lissepia and Tholia) and the Doms getting a couple more systems to take there tally to 21, everyone else was the same as earlier. The Borg though are coming my way (Baku's wiped out, Sona is being assimilated). However there is still only 1 sphere...

All in all, not as fun as the Rom game, due to the Cardys having the worst of it for just about everything... what is good about the Cardys kit? Even there intel is not as good as there is less internal security. However I did not notice the same issues that I ddi in the Rom game. Thermal vents were not a problem, the weird trade thing was not a problem so this save appears to be better?

Regards,

C.

[sanityfreezone]

Turn 231 and I've just made first contact with the Federation in Cardassia. Damn. Had a look under the hood, and despite the huge gap in power the union may still be salvageable if war with the federation can be avoided for the time being at least.. The state if the other empires pretty much mirrors Chernabogs report at 271 expect the federation have a few more systems (24 i think).

[Mentat]

Ermm as for the Cardassians, they have extraordinary ramming capabilties with their vessels and in regards of Industrial and Intel output they are in the absolute top region of the Empires. Furthermore in this scenario they still have a better starting location then the Klingons or the Romulans, .... especially in regards of Minors, which are a crucial factor.

Anyhow nice reports there, and very interesting observations.

As for my experience, difficulty is about as follows:
Federation: very easy
Dominion: easy
Cardassia: normal
Klingon: hard
Romulan: very hard (due proximity to Feds)

[Chernabog]

Hi Mentat,

Certainly true with the minors for the Cardassians, however there is one thing that has been common on both the games I have played so far and that is the direction which the federation takes.

In both games they seem to prefer to move towards the Cardassian sector, so if u are controlling the Cardys then its best to try and stay out of there way for as long as possible as SanityFZ has done, however if you are not then it is likely that an AI controlled Cardassia will always meet the Feds early on and suffer because of that. The Roms, even when controlled by the AI, do not seem to encounter the Feds until turn 200 ish. However I have only played 2 games so this may not be indicative.

Never really use the ramming option much (a tactical failure on my part), however in this game I am building lots of fighters... to use as a suicide screen

One other thing I forgot to mention is that the problem I had, as Romulans, with special buildings not leaving the build list, does not occur in the Cardassian save.

Regards,

C.

[sanityfreezone]

Ermm as for the Cardassians, they have extraordinary ramming capabilties with their vessels and in regards of Industrial and Intel output they are in the absolute top region of the Empires. Furthermore in this scenario they still have a better starting location then the Klingons or the Romulans, .... especially in regards of Minors, which are a crucial factor.

Anyhow nice reports there, and very interesting observations.

As for my experience, difficulty is about as follows:
Federation: very easy
Dominion: easy
Cardassia: normal
Klingon: hard
Romulan: very hard (due proximity to Feds)

It's true the Cardassian's do have a good selection of starting systems around them. I should been a bit braver earlier on and at least explored as far as the Xeopolites (sp) and the Ktarians.

Romulan's i am finding very easy in multi player but i've just realised later in the game I may have inadvertidley taken advantage of the multiple build bug in Gorn..which would explain my huge economy.