UDM Dominion War Scenario Beta Test - for 3.0.1c and 3.0.1d

[carcher]

Well I'm currently playing a nice long"taking it easy" type of game as the feds.

Feds have a real boost due ,to loads of minors,which i feel gives them a huge advantage,I'm upto turn 476 ( my longest ever game )and i've got 20 minors membered, without much difficulty

The roms and cards are all mine,i took about 11/12 systems from them and bombed the rest and i currently have 178 ships in dom space and 117 ships in kling space,and i am raiding the crap out of them ,in the hope they will attack me but they have no ships,that i can see.

not much prob with intel attacks (21,523 points plus loads of bonus) or cash ( i scrapped about 40 med crusiers)

game play is interesting and quiet fast i.e not many dull moments and research is very fast due to vulcans trill caldonians etc.And moral is good despite so much bombing and subjugation.

all in all
i'm enjoying this test but i would like more of a challange in sp(but wouldn't we all? )Ican only drool over playing it in mp ,it would take weeks to finish.

Great job Mentat you've made a really great contribution to botf

I'll post more later

cheers

[robert_defore]

Just a quick question, what diff. level is this saves set to? Having a really easy time expanding as FEDS , but always fall way behind in ship building.

I know that this may not satisfy some, but shouldn't the FEDS be the largest of the Alpha and Beta Quad powers. I deff have the largest of the economies, but do find that the size of my terr. often makes def. difficult.

For the SP game, something may need to be done to push the FEDS toward the Klingons earlier and more naturally. That is if you desire not only cannon maps but also cannon growth and exploration.

Either way, havent had this much fun in a while.

[blackzoid]

Any chance of this being released to the general public as it is? And then perhaps updating the saves later when there are more test results?

[Mentat]

@robert defore:
The scenario is set on impossible, and the Federation has a huge advantage due the many minors in their vicinity. Nevertheless, I played another game two weeks back and after 300 turns things looked quite well indeed. The Dominion had developed very well after it had a long period of not expanding it actually did so like crazy. What the scenario though always needs is a human player who keeps the Federation from overrunning its neighbours. I must admit as Romulan I failed to do so and was overrun, but eventually retook the seven systems(inlcuding Romulus) I had lost, after building up a big enough fleet to counter the roughly 200 Federation ships in my territory.

@blackzoid and general information:
Yes and no. Yes as it will be released, no as in I intend to make some further changes before I release it with Thunders next UDM version/update.

The changes are really needed as for the moment a few things just don't work out as they should and this ruins(at least for me) the otherwise great feeling of the scenario and UDM in general. In other words, I am pretty unhappy with the result as it is.

Intended fixes:
* Key-Systems will be changed to force the AI to colonize into certain regions
* Dominion territory will see changes to ensure faster development
* Some Minors (those without a known location in the Universe) will be moved to aid the Dominion, Klingons and Romulans in their early expansion
* I might have to change some key-systems in regards of the M class planets location, since the AI doesnt seem to recognise M class planets for colonization that are not within the inner planet circle (first 4 planets)

Bottom of the line:
I feel the the best way to develope this scenario would be to play it as a MP game until the known territorries are colonized by the Empires and a certain techlevel and number of ships is available to them aswell. Means as soon as this is released with the next UDM, I will be looking for 4 players with enough time and dedication, who are willing to play the scenario to that point(Pre-Dominion War borders).

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

the AI doesnt seem to recognise M class planets for colonization that are not within the inner planet circle (first 4 planets)

First let me say that we all love what you're doing.

To the point (assuming you're talking about the AI's terraforming/colonisation preferences):

1.) Which of these code changes (if at all) are used? -> the AI minimum terraform threshold

2.) The 4 inner planets thing is odd. Is this phenomenon limited to edited maps i.e. systems? (tests indicated that iirc - also I did never notice an AI M-class preference)

For default map generations, M-class(i.e. high pop) probability should decrease for outer planets. So I want to make sure that's not an editing issue.

[Mentat]

First let me say that we all love what you're doing.

Thanks SCT.

1.) Which of these code changes (if at all) are used? -> the AI minimum terraform threshold

A good question, but one that I would have to ask Thunderchero.

2.) The 4 inner planets thing is odd. Is this phenomenon limited to edited maps i.e. systems? (tests indicated that iirc - also I did never notice an AI M-class preference)

Thats what I have observed in my testgames. The AI does prefer/colonize systems with M-Class planets, regardless if it has to terraform them or not, though only if they are located in what I called the inner circle of planets. If I had added an M-Class world on e.g. position 6 or 7, the AI didn't even bother to colonize such a system at all, even if it would have been one of the best systems(450-500pop) and right next to the AIs homesystem. Instead the AI colonized, really mediocre systems(3 or 4 planets) a few sectors further away, where if had only one small M-class planet and not more then 250 population when fully terraformed. Of course in my scenario, there is not a single planet that has not been changed. So you are probably right, that the AI might not recognise the systems for what they are, but more what they used to be.

For default map generations, M-class(i.e. high pop) probability should decrease for outer planets. So I want to make sure that's not an editing issue.

Well as stated above, I have rearanged and changed that entire map to fit the ideal of "canonizity". I think its very likely a problem linked with changing the original systems to more canon ones.

[blackzoid]

Thats cool Mentat. I had assumed that the saves which you had released to the beta testers were almost the final thing. If there are still big changes to be made, than I have no problem waiting longer.

[Mentat]

Thats cool Mentat. I had assumed that the saves which you had released to the beta testers were almost the final thing. If there are still big changes to be made, than I have no problem waiting longer.

Check your PM blackzoid, you are welcome to test the availbale scenario files. Its not perfect, but clearly well playable.

[blackzoid]

Well, after getting the kind nod from Mentat, I have been playing the scenario on and off. Up to around turn 450 now, only playing as the Dominion, as I wanted to see how it goes if the 4 other AI players develop in close proximity to each other.

I only expanded as far as the Gamma quadrant end of the wormhole.
And it was tough to expand as the dominion! No minors, no immediate other major systems to build ships along with the home system.
My decision to stay away from the main fray for a long time was a wise one. I didn't have the ability to build/research and perform counter-intelligence at the same time. At the moment, I am finally at level 10 science and have built 145 Jem Hadar fighters and about 15 Heavy Cruiser IV's. Have made first contact (was about round 420) with 2 of the other empires.

Occasional use of the -Mudd command has shown some interesting events.


1: The Federation is in a great position. It is THE dominiont power. I have 46 systems with 1 minor (the breen)It has 47 systems with 13 minors! It has easily kept up science development with me, and I've had to devote 4-5 systems to nothing but science research, with no counter-intelligence. It has done the same while fighting various wars. The Federation has completely taken over the Cardassians and are now at war with the Klingons. They have maintained a long term alliance with the Romulans, as a result of expanding upwards and meeting them earlyish in the game.
Their ships are advanced. Plenty of Advanced Explorers, Promethius's, Nebulas, Akira's, and the occasional Defiant and Soverign. If it were a non-canon map, i'd say the Fed position is incredibly unbalanced, but playing against them should be fun.

2: Cardassians. The expanded to their canon systems but were easily pushed aside and defeated by the Federation with some Romulan help. Now no more.

3: The Romulans. They have played a smart game. Always allied with the Federation, they have been able to expand by not annoying the Federation and picking off systems from whatever power, the Federation goes to war with. They got bits of the Cardassian empire, but seem to be more of an equal power in the war with the Klingons.
They have 32 systems with 5 minors. Their technology seems ok, Warbird III's and such. They reach North to South on the right hand side of the Federation. They made first contact with me through their use of Federation systems (their alliance)

4: The Klingons expanded a bit, but did not expand much northwards. They are now at war with both the Federation and Romulans, but their ships are too old. I only see one major fleet, and its mostly Battle-Cruiser II's, Brel's and Bird-of-Prey (K'Vorts). They do have one Negh'Var, but its mostly a case of a long drawn out defeat. They now have 11 systems with 2 minors.
I have not made first contact with them.

I'm getting ready to launch an attack on the Federation's Cardassian systems, sort of make it a Canonish fight. Its not possible for me to come through the wormhole, becacuse the Bajoran end is in Federation territiry. I cannot build an outpost there. So its necessary for me to build outposts as I go to get there. I think the one major advantage I have is that after all research was done, I converted every non-shipbuilding world into an Intelligence world. My Intel level is at 25000, so I should be able to do some damage there. Will try and break up the Fed/Rom alliance. Don't have much money for bribary so will try sabotage.

[sanityfreezone]

Thats cool Mentat. I had assumed that the saves which you had released to the beta testers were almost the final thing. If there are still big changes to be made, than I have no problem waiting longer.

Check your PM blackzoid, you are welcome to test the availbale scenario files. Its not perfect, but clearly well playable.

I am happy to test this. Plenty of free time at the moment.

[RSE_Dissy]

im up for joining the testing!

has anyone noticed excessively long turns?

sounds fun anyway! lemme in:D

[Mentat]

Aye Dissy and sanityfreezone, you are both welcome to join in -> check your PM inbox.

@blackzoid: Thanks for the feedback, I will look into the matter as soon as I find some time.

Overall information, I have continued one of my earlier games, and the longer they last the better the AI of e.g. the Dominion catches up with the rest, since it stays uncontested, it will expand sooner or later.

[sanityfreezone]

Got a single player going as feds and a multi where i've taken the Romulans. Note on the multi player as roms I start with 0 credits for some reason. It was a hard start with no minors, but making some good progress now..will update more when i get further into the game.

[Chernabog]

Hi Mentat,

If you still need people then I would be happy to give the map a go as well ...

Just got my main PC setup so it can play BOTF again, had to switch my newer (and unfortunately better) Nvidea 8800 for the slightly older ATI 3850. Still, its much better playing BOTF on this rather than my very slow IBM T22 laptop

Regards,

C.

[Chernabog]

Hi,

Below are my findings thus far. Played for more a less a full day yesterday (to the detriment of my studies) and having a good game so far. I have not been involved in a single battle yet though...

Bugs/features/whatever you want to call them...
M Class planets neededing terra forming
Roms start with no cash.
Map zooms not too good... too small even when played on a 22inch monitor! (edited to 50 pixels to improve it).
The 2 trades from Romulus can only trade with one planet other planet... weird.
Thermalvents cannot be built on some systems where they should (example Romi and Terix).

Playing as the Romulans, here is a little history of the game thus far...

For the first 100 or so turns I colonized all of the systems close to me, ensuring two ship building systems (Romulus and Terix) were setup and ready (The only two dilithum sources in range).

Turn 171 and I have met the Feds... 19 systems with 5 minors compared to my 13 systems with no minors. I might the Bolians, who were affliated with Feds and defended with 4 light cruisers and due to this my fleet (comprised of 1 scout and 1 warbird) decided it was not a good time to start a war. By this point all key systems (300 plus population) were defended by outpost MKII's. As expected the Feds had far more ships than me and slightly more tech and economy. The Feds were at war with the Cardys (whom I have not yet met).

Turn 187 Friendship with Feds, after a few rounds of diplomacy, securing some lecurative (and much needed) trading cash. The Feds now have 20 systems with 6 minors. I decided that I needed to build a significant fleet before starting a war so its going to be a long game, starting with my second major colonisation expansion (to get more trade and ship support). I am currently on level 4-5 technologically.

I cheated at this point to see how the other powers were facing (didnt look at the map, as i'm enjoying not knowing were everything is, only the stats). Klings have 19 systems with no minors, Cardys have 7 sytems with no minor and the Doms only 5 systems with no minors.

Turn 274, Cardassia falls...

Turn 289 The Imperial fleet is now a power to behold, with many Warbirds, Battle birds, storm birds and other assorted smaller vessels... perhaps the time is drawing near for war. I have met the Mirradorn and they have joined the Empire (another good ship building system).

I cheated again to see where everyone was at... Roms 26 systems with 1 minor, Feds have 31 systems with 9 minors, the Cardys went the way of the Dodo 10 turns earlier, the Kilings now have 26 systems with no minors and the Doms have 11 systems with no minors.

Turn 301 I have met the Klings, and the Imperial fleet being superior succeeded in extorting some credits from them (they dont seem to want to be friends...no supprises there). I start drawing up plans for my invasion, but it seems the Feds have a similiar idea. They have over 50 ships on the joint 3 way border... I they for me or the Klingons?

Turn 321 War breaks out between the Feds and Klings... a Fed fleet of 210 ships storms into Kling teritory destroying everything in its path. This is very worrying as it also contains many more advanced vessels than my fleet, so the number of minors they now have is starting to turn the tide in their favour with regards to the technology race. I decide to bide my time, continue to increase my fleet (I am just about at the population cap), start the third major colonisation expansion and concentrate on a huge program of scientific improvement.

Turn 326 The Klings beg for a non aggression pact, and I agree (to the Feds annoyance). Maybe this will allow them to concentrate there forces better.

Turn 343 I have met the Flaxians and Zakdorn, both are now being sweet talked into loosing there independance.

The last cheat point was here also. Roms have 34 systems with 1 minor (2 in the offing), Feds have 34 systems with 11 minors, Klings have 28 systems with 1 minor (Norsicans I think) and the Doms have 20 systems but no minors.

I am having allot of fun in this game so far, not allot of action, but still I think the final show down between the Romulans and Federation will be good. I just need to find a few more minors ...

C.