UDM Great but...

Ultimate Dominion Mod; showcase and support/discussion/questions/suggestions/reviews

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mrriddler
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UDM Great but...

Post by mrriddler »

... are the ship models supposed to be super duper tiny during the battle? Or is there a button to reframe. My combat view seems to be super zoomed out and if there is a zoom modifier I honestly can't find it.

I tried playing around but nothing really seemed to have "fixed" it. Setting the "view" seemed to help a tiny bit (as in I can click on my ship now where as before all the ships were invisible), but all the ships, even the command vessels seem tiny in comparison to how they looked in say in the BoP mod. :|

Also, I don't think it's a graphics error/incompatibility issue because I've had 0 lag/crashes and when I hit "turn" to initiate the battle, the view sort of zooms in and I can see all the ships move and fire accordingly. So... yeah, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Great graphics though from what I was able to see and really slick ships.

edit: While on the modding subject, I've two questions. I really like the over all feel of this mod and the Dominion race, but I find myself wishing for a few features that was key to BoP. I was wondering if I could somewhat easily modify those areas:

1. Is there a way to modify the terraforming speed globally? I love how you actually need a fleet of colony ships and protective flotilla when colonizing disputed spaces. It looks like all the colony ships had the same speed but the terrforming value on planets was ramped up 100x in BoP across the board. I was looking to do just that but can't find a field for it in UE. I rather liked that feature in BoP, but not a biggie and I can absolutely understand why that might be so hot in a more multi-oriented mod.

2. Somewhat a bigger deal and probably more to the mods or maybe just Thunder. I really liked the reduced damages and reduced scaling in BoP's ships. I'm willing to load up UE to do some edit, but my concern is was the AI combat adjusted in any significant way between the two that would defeat my purpose? I.e. my fear is having a huge battle where I do 1/3 damage to their shields and the AI just run away after every single turn or something like that.

If that's not an issue, here's what I'm planning and maybe modders who have balancing experience can briefly comment. My current idea is to use a couple of the later ship classes as base (BoP battleship vs. UDM late BS but not the crazy 40k ones) and reduce the overall damage of most UDM classes by 25-33%. Won't touch hull/shield/shield regen or weapon # for most part because they would like complicate and unbalance things. I'll likely have to reduce the top ships by more and maybe shave off most of their shield regen, which is likely imba after my changes and change the lower level ships less. My goal would be to narrow the differences between the middle/lower destroyers/cruisers and top battleships purely for SP enjoyment of course. ;)

Basically my plan: Reduce damage across the board => lower shield regen of caps => raise hull (a few ships that seem too weak afterwards) when playing. Real good stuff guys! Best/most fun mod I've played in a long time.
Last edited by mrriddler on Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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thunderchero
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Re: UDM Great but...

Post by thunderchero »

hi mrriddler,

"tab" switches from ship to ship
"I" will zoom in
"o" will zoom out
arrow buttons left, right, up, down

But view always change once combat begins.

But yes many things contribute to how they display, but the one change that has the most effect is the increase in combat distance. But I feel this gives longer and more interesting battles.

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Re: UDM Great but...

Post by thunderchero »

After reading your edited post,

First I will state most of the changes Gowron made in BOP were done on the assembler level (via hex editing) and UE is unable to make these changes. Also the changes Gowron made were mainly small adjustments to values after hours of testing, so duplicating these changes is not easy.
mrriddler wrote:1. Is there a way to modify the terraforming speed globally?
I think Gowron used a combination of things to accomplish this,
  • 1. he change frequency of planets (more terrain iirc)
    2. he change the atmosphere coefficient
    3. I am sure he made other changes but what I am not sure.
mrriddler wrote:I really liked the reduced damages and reduced scaling in BoP's ships.
as for reduced damages this would just take time adjusting a lot of stats, but as you pointed out just be careful not to lose balance.

Scaling is a different subject altogether,

In BOP Gowron almost exclusively used the original (vanilla) ship model (I think he only added 4 new ship models) so he made only minor changes to scale. And the changes were limited to only new models to scale them to vanilla ships.

In UDM one of the original goals was to have all new ship model in the mod (this was completed) But since nothing was known about how the original ship models was created, a lot of guess work was done on how to scale the models. So to have uniform scale between ships and races I started a "scale standard" with the current info on hand. So to prevent things like overlapping of models and distance between models some adjustments were made. If I was to do it over now, it would be done differently.

Now the current released version of UDM (3.0.1dc), the models were adjusted slightly in preparation for future release of the MPR++ project, but this adjustment was done way too early and looks like it may not even have been needed anyway. :evil:

so in summary changing scale depending on what results you are looking for would require reconversion of every model. or have poor results (overlapping ships or very close).

thunderchero
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mrriddler
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Re: UDM Great but...

Post by mrriddler »

Ah thank you, thank you for the response. Although I didn't speak correctly. I meant scaling in terms of damage scaling and not game model scaling/graphics which were great I thought, haha. I played around to see what happens. So far, I just lowered the damage values of tech 7+ ships across the board and reduced armaments of starbases. As far as I can tell, here's the general characteristics of the ship classes/races: (Anyone who's played UDM can probably verify/correct me on my impressions)

Cardassian: weakest overall armaments (beams+torpedos) + shield, strongest hull
Dominion: 2nd strongest overall armaments (behind klingon in beams, behind romulans in torpedos), shield, hull etc.
Federation: strongest shield+shield regen+defense rating. Middle in beam and torpedo damage (i.e. behind klingon/dominion and romulan/dominion respectively)
Klingon: Strongest Beams, weak/weakest torpedos?
Romulan: Weakest Beams, Strongest torpedos, weak shield/armor?
Strike Cruisers: highest #/damage torpedos but seems to benefit romulans most due to their high racial torpedo damage and the klingons look like they get screwed, lol, which is fine, they got some sick beam damages.

In terms of damage output, I seem to see this pattern in UDM:
Tech 10 Heavy Cruiser II > Battleship III (the lvl 7/8 battleship AKA 3rd best battleship)
Tech 7/8 Heavy Cruiser I ~ Battleship III ~ Tech 10 Destroyer (Tech 10 Destroyer have less total output but more damage per-shot than everything but the Super Battleship and the Tech 10 Artillery Cruiser so they probably do more damage than the raw numbers suggest due to high defense rating of enemy ships.)
Tech 10 Strike Cruiser/Artillery > everything in damage but the 40k omega battleship and Tech 10 Battleship IV

I'm curious what the interplay between damage and the defense value is. Do you happen to know the formula or general impression of what's used to calculate final damage, Thunder? Is it same for Beam and torpedo, hull vs. shields?
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Re: UDM Great but...

Post by thunderchero »

well UDM ship stats was done on an excel document based on a single ship stats with many many different variable for ship type, race strengths, race weakness, tech level ect.

This post on damage control might answer some questions
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=268&sid=973b00f3cc9 ... 8cbec8e242

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