Really Really Really not a lot of fun.

[EtraKurdaj]

Alright, so after getting back into BotF, I decided to get into this modding community. I'm going to type about my experience with this mod and maybe I'm doing it wrong, and someone can point me in the right direction.

I started a throw-away game to fiddle around in and learn what's new and what is different.

I started a second, serious game on Hard difficulty to get my feet wet and see how this game goes. I found the start of the game oddly paced - you're given so many ships that need so much micro-management, in addition to so many starting systems, even at the low starting tech level. Seven starting scouts? That's just superfluous. Further, all of the starting systems are a mess, requiring about 15 minutes to sort them out. So it takes 20 minutes to get your first turn done. That's not friendly to a veteran player.

The game progressed. I noted that even with "Few" minor races, there are quite a few of them. I read in the mod discussion that they're much more resistant to gifts and I see that. One combat encounter saw me destroy a minor race's ship and, after fifty turns and probably 15k credits later, they were still Icy towards me. At this point, this is probably more a limitation of the game and less so a fault of the mod, but the diplomacy aspect of the game seemed really delicate, overly so.

Dealing with the major powers is as schizophrenic as it is in Vanilla BotF. I'm friendly with the Dominion for 40 turns and then I get pop-ups that they've made non-agg treaties with everyone else and, next turn, they declare war on me. Is it expected that I accept every demand that comes my way, just to maintain the status quo? Because despite the inflated economy, there is no way that's a feasible option. Again, more a limitation of the game and less something the mod can handle.

What really bothered me was, after giving up on the hard game (150 turns, every faction declared war on me, and was outnumbered 20 to 1) I started a better-planned Normal game and ran into the same barriers, as though the difficulty didn't matter at all.

The enemy factions are flying 15-25 ship fleets on my border when my capital system is still optimizing the production - building Industry buildings for the ship-producing systems, building tech buildings for those specialized systems, etc. Oh, and their spies come knocking right away as well.

I have read several threads on these forums, especially those that dealt with tips to modders, talking about the quirks of BotF programming. So I get it that the only way to make the ai more difficult is to give them more stuff - making them smarter isn't really an option.

All the same, they have too much. And they have too much waaay too soon. It isn't that the game is hard on even the Normal difficulty, it's that the game is broken. I don't think there is anything that can be done by the player to keep up in the critical first 300 turns.

Here is my typical play strategy:
- Explore the area around me
- Terraform the planets in my starting systems
- Grab the better nearby systems, with an eye for future outpost placement
- Look at each system and decide what each would be best at, either industry, research, or intelligence, and specialize the crap out of that system
- From the industry planets, keep up on industry upgrades and never stop building ships (save money to purchase the industry upgrades)

But again, by the 80-150 turn mark, before the industry planets are even online, I have 15-25 ship fleets on my border, each faction waiting to make peace with each other before gang-banging me. I ran a dummy game where, what if from 2 of my starting systems, I didn't bother optimizing them, I just produced ships, and no, I still couldn't keep up. What that seemed to do is light a fire under the ai's butt and they were more aggressive.

What am I doing wrong?

[Flocke]

welcome to our little community EtraKurdaj

First do you play the Ultimate Dominion Mod or like I read in the other topic the Ultimate Mod 5? These are two complete different mods.
And what settings do you play beside difficulty set to hard?

e.g. when you start low tech with minors on generally you should focus to member them even if it's few
but there are many tips to give for playing botf, check out one of the strategy guids here on the board viewforum.php?f=7 e.g. the one from Dissy (note: shouldn't the good ones be sticky?)
or just try figure your own way but increase your starting level compared to the ai when lower difficulty doesn't help
but for sure build a few more ships, at turn 150 you can have a good fleet in any mod so fleets of 25 ships don't bother you

GL & HF

[thunderchero]

Hi EtraKurdaj,

I will try to make suggestions to make game play better for you

you're given so many ships that need so much micro-management, in addition to so many starting systems, even at the low starting tech level

try normal maps low tech starts.

large map version is a continuation of normal map version so yes more systems more ships and more micro management.

Dealing with the major powers is as schizophrenic as it is in Vanilla BotF.

Don't play like Picard, Play like Sisco. Even feds need to expect war and never trust anyone.

150 turns, every faction declared war on me, and was outnumbered 20 to 1

Playing UDM you need to build, build, build then even build more. by turn 100 on high tech large map games you need over 100 - 200 ships by turn 100 to win game.

I don't think there is anything that can be done by the player to keep up in the critical first 300 turns.

on large high tech game be sure to use "Heavy colony ships" when colonizing (terraforming use colony ship) heavy colony ships give 100 pop and many more buildings. this gives colonies a big boost.

thunderchero

[EtraKurdaj]

Flocke,

I downloaded both but am currently playing Ultimate Dominion. Thank you for the tips, I'll try again.

Thunderchero,

I will take your advice to heart, thank you for the response. I have never tried a 100 ship strategy by turn 100, that just sounds nuts. But I'll try it.

And you're right. I am more Picard than Sisko