Balance of Power Review

Balance of Power Mod; showcase and support/discussion/questions/suggestions/reviews

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Brainsuker
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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by Brainsuker » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:55 pm

ah thank you.

Well right now I leave Alcamarian alone with 4 of my Birth of Prey to raid them (well free credit). I fight against all major powers in my game (funny, I never declare war to anyone, nor sabotage them but they accuse me for a lot of bad thing. Maybe somebody with high Intel accuse me to do so). I just taken 4 of Cardie's systems and wow, now I can rally 45 ships in an invasion. in that battle I lost 7 of my Heavy Cruiser (well my expensive ships, have only 9 of them) and now I'm in a state of replace them.

I'll try to capture Alcamarian again later with my new fleet.

With my current economy, I think I'm ready to create the 2nd stack of my Vor'cha class. Previously, I prefer Battle Cruiser to Heavy because it is cheaper to maintain thus I could muster more ships than my heavy cruisers squadron. I still so, because I believe in 1st class and 2nd class unit. For now (as battleship is still beyond my capability), my first class unit is my squadron of Heavy Cruisers (a stack of 9 ships). They guard Qo'nos unless needed to reinforce the front lines. For Battle Cruisers, I have a squadron (9 ships) and several units (3 ships unit) of them. I have several units (3 ships unit) of K'vort to guard my systems and support my front lines fleet, and a flotilla of B'rel (9 ships unit) for raiding.

Klingon is a very powerful race just because they have cloaking capability. I always put my ships in cloak state, so I can always run when they are in an unfavorable situation. With my superior number of ships compared to Cardie's fleet, I can always return with more ships, thus overpower them. I don't know if this feature effect the balance in Multiplayers game. As this is my first game of Balance of Power.

the funny thing is, the systems of Major Power is easier to be taken over than the Acamarian. Because they just put 7 to 10 batteries total. That's why I believe that nerf down Minor Race's OB is necessary for balancing things. Isn't Minor Race is just a stepping stone to empower your Empire? Well. just don't ask me about the difficulty setting of my game. I'm a newbie after all. So I don't know what happen in the Impossible difficulty setting.

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Martok
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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by Martok » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:36 am

Brainsuker wrote:ah thank you.

You're welcome! Hope I was able to help a little.


Brainsuker wrote:Well right now I leave Alcamarian alone with 4 of my Birth of Prey to raid them (well free credit). I fight against all major powers in my game (funny, I never declare war to anyone, nor sabotage them but they accuse me for a lot of bad thing. Maybe somebody with high Intel accuse me to do so). I just taken 4 of Cardie's systems and wow, now I can rally 45 ships in an invasion. in that battle I lost 7 of my Heavy Cruiser (well my expensive ships, have only 9 of them) and now I'm in a state of replace them.

I'll try to capture Alcamarian again later with my new fleet.

Good luck! :)



Brainsuker wrote:With my current economy, I think I'm ready to create the 2nd stack of my Vor'cha class. Previously, I prefer Battle Cruiser to Heavy because it is cheaper to maintain thus I could muster more ships than my heavy cruisers squadron. I still so, because I believe in 1st class and 2nd class unit. For now (as battleship is still beyond my capability), my first class unit is my squadron of Heavy Cruisers (a stack of 9 ships). They guard Qo'nos unless needed to reinforce the front lines. For Battle Cruisers, I have a squadron (9 ships) and several units (3 ships unit) of them. I have several units (3 ships unit) of K'vort to guard my systems and support my front lines fleet, and a flotilla of B'rel (9 ships unit) for raiding.

I too prefer to have the K'Tingas serve as the "backbone" of my fleet, with a squadron of Vor'Chas here & there providing heavier support. I also include a good mix of B'rels and K'vorts (and of course a few Negh'Vars once I can build them), but the K'Tinga always forms the bulk of my navy.



Brainsuker wrote:Klingon is a very powerful race just because they have cloaking capability. I always put my ships in cloak state, so I can always run when they are in an unfavorable situation. With my superior number of ships compared to Cardie's fleet, I can always return with more ships, thus overpower them. I don't know if this feature effect the balance in Multiplayers game. As this is my first game of Balance of Power.

Well there are at least a few mitigating factors...


First off, I believe the Klingons suffer a bigger morale penalty when they lose a battle (including when they retreat), whereas the Cardassians don't suffer as much when they pull back. (This is probably to reflect the Cardies tendency to take a "longer view" of things.)

Secondly, Cardassian ships are tough. They not only have decent shields & very heavy armor, but they also boast a lot of weaponry as well -- nearly as much as the Klingons themselves. In contrast, Klingon ships don't have as much survivability, as their shields & armor are generally weaker; thus, the best way for them to get out of combat safely is to retreat in the beginning while still cloaked.

Finally, Cardassian ships are generally cheaper to produce than Klingon vessels. Given the Cardies' economy is also a bit stronger, this means can recover losses a little more quickly than the Klingons can.


I do agree that Cards are still at an overall disadvantage compared to the Klingons, but I don't feel the gap is nearly as wide as it might first appear.



Brainsuker wrote:the funny thing is, the systems of Major Power is easier to be taken over than the Acamarian. Because they just put 7 to 10 batteries total. That's why I believe that nerf down Minor Race's OB is necessary for balancing things. Isn't Minor Race is just a stepping stone to empower your Empire?

Yes, I concur: It's that minor races build so *many* OB's that makes them difficult to take over. And since I'm nowhere near a skilled-enough modder to figure out how to make minor races simply build fewer OB's, using Ultimate Editor to weaken them is the next best thing.

And yes, I agree minor races are there to be absorbed into your empire...one way or the other. ;)



Brainsuker wrote:Well. just don't ask me about the difficulty setting of my game. I'm a newbie after all. So I don't know what happen in the Impossible difficulty setting.

Well I still play the game on Normal difficulty, so you needn't feel embarrassed. :)

Not that I don't think I could win on harder difficulties. However, on Hard and Impossible difficulty, I've noticed other empires seem to automatically declare war on you only 1-2 turns after you meet them, which I can't stand -- it destroys my willing suspension of disbelief, which is necessary to play (and enjoy) these types of games.
"Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal

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Brainsuker
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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by Brainsuker » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:01 am

Cardie is interesting race then. I'll try them later.

I just save this game and play with Federation, and I surprise that they are way too different to Klingon. But I don't like how the ship set is put in here. I prefer if they put the Excelsior model to Cruiser and Galaxy model to Dreadnought instead. So no Ambassador and Sovereign. Or... if you still want to use them, just give them different designation ( but I guess it will disturb the balance).

Long to short, Federation ships are expensive; more expensive than Klingon. I can't use the same strategy (and organization) like when I play with Klingon. Maybe I should device a new way of play for them.

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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by rflash » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:07 pm

After playing it for the last 3 weeks I have to admit that Gowron did a great job with it.

1. It's fun playing with every race. While of course different tactics are needed I managed to play at least 250 turns with each race and by that time I had a clear superiority in a large galaxy / t1 / many / impossible. I had fun even with the Cards.
2. It's great that bonus structures give a % bonus and not a fixed one. While this will make research/intel get to huge numbers after a while it helps in keeping the game balanced much longer.
3. I like the reduced no of ships. Each ship now has a much clearer job and the AI builds the best ships he can. The fleet distribution is still rather poor in my opinion, but much better then before.
4. The battles take longer and tactics play a greater role.
5. Minor races now react in a more natural way. It's not at easy as before to get them to join or to conquer them. It's rather difficult to get them very early in the game.
6. My main complaint is related to the very heavy map. There are too many systems on it. One result is that propulsion doesn't mean much. Another is that you can cover your territory with a high scan strength. Tough luck for cloaked ships. Only the huge 52x39 map looks ok, but I very rarely saw all 5 starting positions with enough systems around not to require a starbase.
7. Another strange thing is that the systems are rather uniform. I rarely saw 450+ systems. Given 4-9 planets per system and a maximum of 500 pop I find that strange.

Overall it's a great mod. It's way better then vanilla and I'll keep playing it.

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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by robertbc73 » Sat May 31, 2014 6:46 pm

Problems with your mod. Cant build shield generators. At max tech all starting planets were tech 4 industry. No kind of scout ship. This is from just trying the Federation.
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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by thunderchero » Sat May 31, 2014 9:42 pm

robertbc73 wrote: Cant build shield generators.
this was by design, shield generator is home system only.
robertbc73 wrote:At max tech all starting planets were tech 4 industry
this mod uses tech % bonus upgrades. You only have to upgrade that structure 5 times instead of the normal 9 times (if tech 1 start). food structures never need upgrade.
robertbc73 wrote:No kind of scout ship
Gowron used a limited shiplist to balance things.

we miss you Gowron..... :cry: :cry: :cry:

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Martok
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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by Martok » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:08 am

Yeah, I miss the guy too. :sad:


Did anyone ever hear what happened to him, btw? I remember there was speculation that he may have passed away (we all know he'd been ill for some time), but was that ever actually confirmed?
"Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal

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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by SeaBee-T » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:56 am

I really hope he hasn't! Maybe just forgotten about this temporarily? Send him good vibes! :D

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Army37
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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by Army37 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:17 pm

I can't seem to make to game work under Windows 8.1
botf 1.0.2 multi works fine so is Galaxy mod but this one crashes on startup....any input?

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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by thunderchero » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:49 pm

Army37 wrote:any input
need more input :wink:

do you get any messages?
missing Mss32.dll?
does it look like all the files are in BOP folder?

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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by Army37 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:56 pm

No it doesn't tell me anything...click on the trek.exe icon for the mod and then crash to desktop....checked the error log and couldn't find anything....It works well under vista on my laptop but not on my desktop which is under Win 8.1
I Tried both BOP which is the large game and regular game

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Korth
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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by Korth » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:25 am

Playing with a "Large" (52x39) galaxy map at 1920x1080 is awesome. Maybe other mods support this as well, but BOPL has been my first (and, so far, only) BotF experience at what I consider a "playable" resolution.

Game still randomly crashes (on Win7x64 and Win10x64) but much less than what I'm used to, it's stable enough for decent (two- and three-person) multiplayer across network. The host just saves every turn in alternating slots, quick recovery has always been possible (so far).

I've played Klings and Cards (yeah, like a real man) while my (cowardly) opponents played Feds and Roms and Fergs. We've all commented quite positively on our various empires' ships/structures/techs/etc.

We all like the fast-moving ships, covers the map quickly. We have mixed feelings about no Outposts but huge Starbases, it makes territorial expansion a much more gradual process. We like the changes to ship stats and look forward to tactical combat encounters.

The mod's Food/Energy handling is much better, even though the numbers get a little silly at higher tech levels. My Federation friend tells me he's observed similar issues with Research that "spirals out of control" after many Simulators are constructed, and I agree with my Romulan friend who tells me he finds similar issues with how Intel "is insanely unstoppable" after many Phoenix/Surveillance are constructed. Maybe the tech/structure bonus percentages need to be toned down a little or adjusted along some kind of curve; they seem to work quite well for "multiplayer deathmatch" games but they also seem to amplify and exaggerate imbalances in longer-paced large-map contests.

I admit I don't like how (almost) ALL Klingon ships are able to cloak - makes me feel like I've stolen flavour from the scummy Romulans - I feel the Vanilla approach was better, with only some cloaking ship models and only at the higher-tech levels. I'd like to see Klingon Class 5 and Class 6 Foundries, but perhaps not Class 7/8/9 Security Centers and Halls of Learning - I think each race should have differing maximum tiers for Industry, Intel, and Research upgrades.

We've noticed a few minor bugs:
- The game version number on the menu screen sometimes inexplicably changes from "BOPL1.2c" to "BOPL1.2the".
- Using arrow keys to scroll a "small map" around a "Large" galaxy often causes a few lines of the shifted image to remain on the outer edges.
- Cardassian Cruiser VI and Klingon Heavy Cruiser V are placed "out of order" in the ship lists.
- Minor races are (almost always) clustered tightly together, usually in the lower left corner, the proximate empire has many first contacts while the other guys might meet the only one or two remote outliers on their side of the galaxy. I'd blame RNG except that this pattern is almost always the rule, not the exception.
- We've had to restart a few times because one player empire is trapped on the map's edge/corner with vast empty space all around. (When playing "Irregular" galaxy, anyhow.)
- We've been spoiled by the countless little fixes in ECM4 and sorely notice where they're lacking in this mod.

All told it's a great mod and has so far been very entertaining for three BotF players.
[/Korth]

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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by thunderchero » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:45 am

BOP has been a long time favorite of many player.

as for the bugs you reported;

- version number error happens on all versions with letters in version. error will even write the stbof.ini incorrectly example "Version=BOPL1.2the Cardassian Union"
- clicking on map after scrolling will remove ghosts.
- cruiser VI is not an upgrade to cruiser V, iirc he did this to improve AI since AI builds first available ship of each type on list.
- this is a attempt to balance placement on larger maps, only one value controls all 3 map sizes.
Gowron wrote:
Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:54 pm
position: 0x17D668
length: 8 bytes
default value: 0.2
description:
This value controls the number of minor races. Setting this to zero or lower led to a maximum of 4 minors under any settings. Setting this to 1.0 or higher resulted in 29-30 minor races on large irregular galaxies with minors set to "many".
Update:
The value seems to determine the chance that a given sector get a minor race during the placement of the races.
Apparently the sectors are scanned from left to right:
With the value set to 1.0, I observed a definite general accumulation of the minor races in the left part of the map.
- 2028 sectors and max 340 space objects to me always seemed a little low but will help with turn processing time.
- use QD patcher to add patches you want and share trek.exe with other players. :wink:

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Korth
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Re: Balance of Power Review

Post by Korth » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:15 am

I realized the "bugs" I reported were primarily cosmetic, and I'm not very surprised that they've all been discussed before. But as always more eyes on target and more perspectives sometimes manage to see stuff others missed, and the more attention a bug gets the more attention it gets from bug exterminators, lol.

Sad to learn that the scatter pattern for minors is hardcoded. The specifics of "random" map generation have a profound impact on the game, a tendency to generate "bad" or "flawed" maps translates directly into "bad" or "flawed" games (especially in multiplayer).

But I don't wanna derail this topic ... I came, I gave BOPL my quick review, I reported my bugs, I leave my compliments, I'm moving on.
[/Korth]

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