\\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Balance of Power Mod; showcase and support/discussion/questions/suggestions/reviews

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ruthlessferengi
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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by ruthlessferengi » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:26 am

Ai powers only half the batteries btw. It works.
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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by Martok » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:07 pm

I will admit that I've long used Ultimate Editor to nerf OB's in the BOP mod. Not all the way back to what they were in the vanilla (that's too weak even for my tastes), but I do scale back their firepower quite a bit.
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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by ruthlessferengi » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:16 pm

While I can't comment on the original intent of the higher orb rating i do think this mod balances overly easy planetary take over and makes game more challenging. Even if one loses a fleet there is chance of recovery as home systems are well protected.
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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by Zweistein000 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:11 pm

That is true but I find it ridiculous that I can ram my entire fleet into Benzar and only kill 10 mil pop + 4 OB before my fleet gets wiped out. If OB are this strong then they should also cost a lot more.

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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by ruthlessferengi » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:27 pm

For 30 orbs u need 15 spy ships to sacrifice. Plus at least 20 tt for takeover. Real estate costs in this game:]
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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by Zweistein000 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:25 pm

So... which ones are spy ships? Destroyers. I sent in a lot more than 15 and still got recked by orbitals.

I guess that the only way to deal with them is to sacrifice 15 ships and send in the troop invasion. No more bombing the planets by cruisers :/

EDIT: Lesson learned. When enemy has 30 orbital batteries you don't bomb the system. You take it. With lots and lots of troop transports.

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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by ruthlessferengi » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:34 am

Yes u need a lot of tts:) cruisers alone won't work unless I am forgetting that ferengi strike cruisers can survive an orbital Unless I missed an update...;)
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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by Zweistein000 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:10 am

Yep. Well this certainly changes the gameplay a lot. You only bomb a system when there are very few OB guarding it. But if there are lots of OB guarding it, then you send in destroyers and TTs. This makes OB useful as it requires that the enemy really commit to taking the system. All in all this seems like a good change.

Now I just wish that regular destroyers had a role other than cannon fodder :/ They really are quite useless for anything else. I think they should still have a sensor range of 2 tiles.

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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by NitrousUK » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:45 am

Just found this mod, and it looks fantastic.
However it looks a while since it was updated, and in the meantime ECM has made a lot of fixes.
I noticed some patch conflicts with ECM (around 6). And of the non-conflict ones, applying them all (except Joker DxWnd and chasing ship morale) would result in the odd crash. Once when engaging the Crystal Entity.
I'm wondering if anyone has had success applying ECM 4 patches to BoP? Perhaps there's a subset of ECM patches that plays well with BoP.

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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by thunderchero » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:04 pm

as for using ECM patches on BOP, Gowron used code that was specific to BOP. This causes many conflicts since most of BOP code changes are unknown and not documented.

Note; the patch list for BOP is only the known (basic) patches. Gowron made hundreds of other changes that could conflict with any ECM patches.

so all you can do is trial and error, but some errors will not show up until X Y Z happens. also never continue a saved game after adding patches, always start a new game.

Also be aware some patches will only add code changes and may require other changes (example adding planet killer requires additional files)

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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by NitrousUK » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:04 am

Thanks for the info Thundercero.

I was afraid of that.. seems there's a choice between a well patched BOTF or a well balanced one..
Perhaps the easier option is to port over the most important balance changes from BoP to ECM.
Does anyone have a copy of the BoP documentation? The link in the first post is dead.

I think the most important changes I'd like to see from BoP:
* Slower minor advancement (Vulcans can be a game breaker)
* Slowed down combat (more fun, but also balances the power of cloaking, which is game breaking in large fleets)
* Stronger orbital batteries (require a concerted commitment in order to take systems, so long games aren't over so quickly and unsatisfyingly)
* Bonus: Give all monsters torpedos, so combat is less dull/predictable
* Bonus: "Squash" the ship tech levels, so upgrades aren't such a big jump

I'm happy to have a go at this myself, if it's just editing game data files. Might write a script to edit them in batch, so they can all be changed at the same time (eg +10%).

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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by thunderchero » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:40 am

All documentation is included as part of the installer, the htm file is in the install path of BOP look for "BOP_readme.htm"

If I was attempting this I would slow patch BOP, first add the patches most important to you and test (no more than 5 at a time, so if needed narrowing down error/conflict is easier). then add a few more and so on until you have most possible added.

Important; before adding any patch you should read up on code changes. This can be done though bof_patcher, when a patch is selected each patch has a link to the code changes (forum topic). You should read entire topic to see if it has been updated or if might conflict with other patches. Also some patches may have "notes" for conflicts or if patch requires added changes.

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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by NitrousUK » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:05 pm

Ah yes, the documentation is in there. Thanks for the info.

Wow, that's a lot of changes. And some very nice ones in there.
Maybe you're right, and it would be easier to port over ECM patches..
I'll try to share what I learn here, then perhaps we could collectively build up a list of safe ECM patches.
My current approach to tracking down a crashing patch is to do a binary search of the patches (alternating and reducing halves of the ECM patches), which should take at most 7 tries.

Would a good playtest scenario be small map, many minor, tech 3 majors, and hammer "turn" 200~ times to let the AI flush out any crashes?

Also, is BoP generally considered to be stable? No known issues/crashes?

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Re: \\\-- Balance of Power (v1.2c released)--///

Post by thunderchero » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:47 am

yes Gowron made many very small changes, mainly small value changes but they have a big impact on game play.

as for testing code changes I would go with small map, tech 8 start, many minors. but this would depend on type of patches being tested. Example; if patch is related tech advancement I would start at tech 1 for those type of patches and play longer. It also might help if you test same type of patches when testing this may allow more patches to be tested at the same time but harder to eliminate problem if they arise.

As for stability of BOP, it is very stable. but all mods are susceptible to saved game errors. Saved game errors are more likely to happen late in the game and or on large maps.

Crash logs (botf crash log as well as windows crash log from event viewer) and using ida database viewtopic.php?f=76&t=2175 can be very helpful finding location of code causing error.

good luck

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