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Martok
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Post by Martok »

ketteringdave wrote:This is a known bug from the original game. It may be more noticeable now, since more starbase upgrades means more opportunities for this to occur.

Fascinating; I'd honestly never been aware of that before. Although that probably is indeed because (as you pointed out) that with a total of 5 starbase levels instead of vanilla's 2, there's a lot more chances for one to notice it. Thanks, mate. :)

ketteringdave wrote:I haven't gotten too deep into a game yet, but I think this update looks very good, and I've enjoyed each version of the mod so far.

Agreed; this has definitely got to be one of my top 2-3 favorite updates so far. Not since the introduction of heavy destroyers and the "denser" regular-sized maps (the ones with additional and more populous star systems) have I enjoyed BOP this much. Truly, a brilliant piece of work!
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Post by Martok »

It's probably a bug native to vanilla BOTF and not BOP, but I figured I'd mention it anyway to be on the safe side:


While playing a Romulan game (yay!), I had ordered two troop transports to construct a starbase at one of my colonies. The next turn, they were just sitting there on "Avoid", and there was no starbase being built. :?

Anyone else see this happen before? I mean, I know there are several weird bugs involving ships -- they get stuck, go the other way, form "clone fleets", etc. -- but this one was new to me.
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Post by Miscent »

Amazing mod gowron

Perfectly balanced (hell i even like to play cardassians alot).
The only thing that can make this mod even more fun is to get some more/different ships in it.

But ofc without changing the way the bouldup of the shiplist is now (thinking of the adding of the excelsior class you did with the last update that worked just nice).


Well keep up the good work.
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Post by Martok »

Not sure if this is even a bug:

I just realized that Federation ships now explode in "Cardassian purple" when they're destroyed. Is this new, or has it been like this for a while (and I'm just slow in noticing it)? Not a big deal either way, but I was curious.
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Post by KrazeeXXL »

Martok wrote:I had ordered two troop transports to construct a starbase at one of my colonies. The next turn, they were just sitting there on "Avoid", and there was no starbase being built. :?

Anyone else see this happen before?
yup, very often. It's a general BotF bug. try to avoid redeploying fleets/changing course and/or load an older save to fix it.
Martok wrote: I just realized that Federation ships now explode in "Cardassian purple" when they're destroyed.
had this one, too. but not in BOP afair. It was in UM1 I guess. Sounds like some mistaken hob files.
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Post by Gowron »

Martok wrote:It's probably a bug native to vanilla BOTF and not BOP, but I figured I'd mention it anyway to be on the safe side:


While playing a Romulan game (yay!), I had ordered two troop transports to construct a starbase at one of my colonies. The next turn, they were just sitting there on "Avoid", and there was no starbase being built. :?

Anyone else see this happen before? I mean, I know there are several weird bugs involving ships -- they get stuck, go the other way, form "clone fleets", etc. -- but this one was new to me.
Hmm, haven't encountered this so far ^^
The only bug-free reason I can think of is that the sector became a disputed territory while the starbase was under construction. If that's not the case, then it's just one of those strange bugs BotF keeps surprising us with. Or maybe your ships need a morale officer ;)
Martok wrote:Not sure if this is even a bug:

I just realized that Federation ships now explode in "Cardassian purple" when they're destroyed. Is this new, or has it been like this for a while (and I'm just slow in noticing it)? Not a big deal either way, but I was curious.
Interesting, but not intended, and not reproducable either (for me) :?
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Post by thunderchero »

Martok wrote:I just realized that Federation ships now explode in "Cardassian purple" when they're destroyed.
KrazeeXXL wrote:had this one, too. but not in BOP afair. It was in UM1 I guess. Sounds like some mistaken hob files.
Correct I just checked and some of the explosion file got replaced by mistake in multi main installer.

this has been fixed and new multi main installer has been uploaded.

BOTF_1.0.2_English_German_b.exe

complete uninstall would be needed of main and all mods before installing.

this is only graphic file change and remain compatible. And only engish install was effected.

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Post by ketteringdave »

A new bug?

I've been playing a ton of this mod. Worked my way through all the races, and then started changing my typical game. For the first time in a long time, I've been playing with random events on, to make things a step harder. In the past two games, I've come across an empty system:

Image

Image

Note that in the second instance, the empty system was Vulcan! Now, there were Vulcan cruisers flying about early in the game, and I had several diplomatic messages from the Vulcans, including war, but then at some point I got the "fighting is no longer necessary" message that means they joined another empire. I didn't pay much attention until I wanted to push back the Cardassians, and noticed that they only had control of the system because of a starbase. I thought they'd bombed the Vulcans out of existence, but then I noticed the lack of planets.

Like I said, I've played a ton of no-random-event games, and never saw anything like this. Within my first handful of random games, I find this bug twice. I can't remember any specific random events causing this kind of trouble.

So, has anyone else seen anything like this? I've never seen it mentioned before, and I've been around a bit. I kinda doubt there's any fix possible for this.

P.S. I've got saved games for both maps. And yes, I'm getting beat down in my current Romulan game.
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Post by thunderchero »

It would be interesting to run a game with mudd on to find out what alien is doing that and why or if it is an alien at all?

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Post by Flocke »

ketteringdave wrote:So, has anyone else seen anything like this? I've never seen it mentioned before, and I've been around a bit. I kinda doubt there's any fix possible for this.
That's not a bug, that's the supernova random event which is occuring with red giants sometimes. A very nasty random event which just erases the whole system and someone really should disable this somehow, as well as the nasty asteroid impacts!

I remember a game some years ago where I played the klingon in vanilla, early tech, impossible without scrap tricks and minors.
I colonized a 500 ppl system and improved it till it became my best system. I've had alot of troubles with ai and was about loosing, then came the supernova and killed my best system (of just a couple of systems in total). I got so angry I could have hammered my keyboard! :lol:

P.S.: Another piece of information for the wiki, I hoped there were more interest! Ketteringdave made a great job so far, thanks very much. :D
I'm currently having some troubles in real life, so I don't have any time for the wiki myself besides making backups. ;)
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Post by ketteringdave »

Wow, that is pretty evil. I don't think I've ever seen that before. I thought I knew what this game was doing.

As the Romulans above, I'm so far behind because I got hit for about 5000 credits within the first 15-20 turns. I did run into a bug there - I bought a colony ship, dropping my credits near zero, and then lost 2000 more to a random event. I paid for this ship, but it didn't get produced because of being in the red, but I didn't get my credits back either, so I was down 2000 and wasted 4 turns getting back to production. Fortunately, the other empires must have hit their spending limit, because they've all backed off now.
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Post by KrazeeXXL »

Flocke wrote:A very nasty random event which just erases the whole system and someone really should disable this somehow, as well as the nasty asteroid impacts!
I disagree about switching off those nasty random events. Although I would like to have a reduction of some of them.

Also, I still don't get why those asteroid impacts should devastate a whole system and about 200 buildings if I have a shield generator online...

To the supernovas. I would like to see this game become "more Star Trek". In MoO2 you were able to prevent random events. So I'd like to have an option to prevent a supernova with a starship. Should also depend on this Starships Experience to become a successful operation. And/Or the ship should get xp, too, after beeing successful.

TNG - like. I really love to play this game with the random events on. It's more varied which means more fun but there should be a way to improve the random events somehow.

I know it would be a challenge for modders and even an unpopular one so I don't think that anyone might change it... so hm, maybe I have to do it by myself at the end :lol:

edit:
@ketteringdave: that's why I love to play this game this way. You can loose with random=ON ;) although I have to admit that I don't play on impossible. Had 3 asteroid strikes within 25 or 30 turns and since then I often play "only" on "hard". that's tough enough for me.
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Post by Martok »

Yeah, aside from the Borg, those bloody supernovas -- and to a lesser extent, the asteroid strikes -- are the biggest reason I nearly always play with Random Events turned off. If they could be disabled (the supernovas and asteroid strikes, that is), I'd probably turn them back on, as the Borg actually aren't so bad now that Gowron's rebalanced them (although they're still certainly tough).

Actually, what I really wish is that there was a way to *only* enable the race/ship random events (Borg, Crystalline Entity, Chodiak Dreadnought, etc.) while keeping the general planetary/star system random events disabled. The former are generally pretty fun, but the latter are just irritating -- I hate it when my star system is killed off, or when a planet suffers a "climate shift" and changes from a lush L-class to a crappy Y-class world. :x
Last edited by Martok on Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by KrazeeXXL »

yea the annoying climate shifts ;) one of my negative favourites, too.


Some of my experiences about how to play and deal with RANDOM=ON

I found out, but can't prove it, that if I play "good" it seemed that I got some gifts in the form of positive climate shifts. In my last games I finally adapted and often got some positive ones. Before, I got 'em never or most rarely. I remember an almost perfect game in which I had 5 positive and not a single negative climate change!

with "good" playing a game I mean that you are better compared to the ai and this in all sectors (ships, researches, buildings, growth and so on). So it means to be really good in the overall-average. Perhaps it is connected with the graphics-overview (statistics). I can't say but it's a gut-feeling as I have often.

If I expanded too fast and had to disregard some systems - I often got negative climate shifts then. So it is allways the primary goal for me to colonize every new system competely and ASAP. It seems that if you have more planets available and systems with more planets in it then you are able to better your luck a bit.

So it is also good to colonize some of the "not-so-good-systems" to broaden the spectrum of planets you own. But if you have them you have ofc to evolve these systems to not loose the better average-value compared to the ai. This isn't a big problem but slows you down a bit. But if you get lucky the random events just happen on one of the crappy systems that you can spare.

My xp is that random events often happen on one and the same system or even planet!
Sometimes they occured on 2,3 or 4 different systems/planets - in many other games only on one and the same.

So, if I don't played a good "allround-game" and concentrated too much on one specific section (research, ships, buildings aso) and disregarded one of the others I often got one of those nasty results.

There are things in game which seem to be easy goals and gems in a long term sight edit:(f.e. mass-replicators or minors) but too heavy for you in short-sight. Be sure that they aren't too heavy for your empire and you can reduce some of the nasty results like impacts, too. :)

It's important to keep the balance and not to lean out of the window then you'll allways be successful, even with the "bad" ;) RANDOM=ON

edit: and obviate stagnation! don't do everything in a hurry and at the same time. F.e. leave some systems uncolonized if you want to play a longer game w/o much bad random events in later stages. This includes not to upgrade all the systems at the same time. If you have 40 systems then upgrade "big stuff" like research centers and mass replicators only on 20 and on the rest keep building single buildings and/or ships

edit2: I've forgotten the unemployees. Don't get too much of them over a mid period of time (ca 20turns). Can be a problem with the "mrbb"-minor-race-building-bug. If you reduce the unemployees with one building (-1 person) per 1-2 turns/system you shouldn't get into trouble. But this should be allways top priority to prevent bad random events to happen on you.

That is what I meant with balancing. If you don't play with random events on, you can set your grow-rate on all systems to maximum not caring about the unemployees you get.

So for me random events are some kind of punishment for a "bad" game you play - and have lesser to do with coincidence - means you did something wrong. It takes some xp to deal with the random events and it is very hard. No one likes to see the systems destroyed in which very much time was invested.

So, if you think you know anything about this game I can say that nothing is better and more challenging. Promised. Without random events I'm totally bored in this game. Nothing exciting happens and except mp everything is very boring, predictable and imo a little bit stupid ;)

So try to play BotF this way, you won't regret it. As reward you'll get the best bonus of all: some bigger better planets. Perhaps this thingy with the "unknown technology found on planet xyz" we know from MoO2 and we can see in the stbotf.res can be included, too, to make the random events more funny in the future.

I hope I was able to season you to play and deal with the random events.

What I wrote above is nothing I can prove, it's just some of the Borg-XP of some hundred games I played over the time with following settings:

T1/T3, big+irr, hard, many, Random=ON, Borg=ON in UM1+planetmod+ one or two cloaked Defiants :lol:

That, Gomtuu :lol: and ofc the Borg were my only intention why I played with random=on.

as mp games aren't played with random=on (as yet) I had no problem to share some of my knowledge with all of you :mrgreen:


and my last edit#3 for today :lol: goes to Gowron:


I recently started BOP and was stunned about the mega systems I got in the first 5 turns. two 420's with 3 class m and 50/70 percent bonus of food and another system with one class m planet in it and 7 or 8 uncolonized.
Due to the big map I can't imagine how I should get the micromanagement done with such huge systems. Good, the random events are uninteresting now as you can easily swap your shipbuilding to another planet. Then almost every system is now able to do which leads to another point.

I'd like to see things a little bit more defined. I did not have big fights within the large maps in the past which might be a reason that it was almost very stable. But now as you're able to build huge ammount of ships the possibility to crash is slightly enhanced. Just think about the redeploying-bug which leads to crashes and the a.i. which redeployes in its cleverness the ships all the time.

So even if it is unpopular I'd like to see more of those "crappy systems". The only thing I do now in the beginning is constant terraforming and AISIWIG. :/

I have to admit that it is boring to do this with 30 systems and finally meet the first minor. (meeting the minor this late isn't the problem)

Space is a big place, it might be crowded but sometimes they have to travel weeks to get to the next habitable system.

So reducing the ammont of systems plus the reducing of the ammount of top planets would help. F.e. the problem with the money and research I mentioned before. I was glad to read that you changed the money and research but I can't imagine that it should work with this huge ammount of ppl in all systems. Tbh for me it is too much - Ich fühle mich etwas erschlagen ;)

As it is now, it is hard to play and increases the time you need to play a game exponential. And as we all know isn't BotF the most stable game. So it is more then twice as hard if I can't continue playing in fact of bugs (redeploying f.e.) after investing that much time into micromanagement.

So it would be nice if you could change it. :) Would make it much easier to test it, too, especially with a small ammount of time per day.

Thanks in advance,

one of your warriors
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Post by Dafedz »

Hey guys!

Started playing botf again and I've begun with this fantastic mod - loving the large maps now. Great work Gowron! However I have a problem.

Playing the feds, large Irregular galaxy, and I'm at turn 150 ish.

Completed the construction of 'Subspace Resonators' in two systems. I've already successfully built these energy buildings before numerous times without a problem.

Yet I was confused to discover that I was receiving no energy for the Resonators in these particular systems. It was then whilst hunting around the Structures screen searching for it when the game suddenly crashed. I received the following error information:
dwwin.exe
A breakpoint has been reached.
(0x80000003) occurred in the application at location 0x7c90120e
It's a shame, was really enjoying this game. I hope this problem has a solution!!

cheers
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