Starting a New "All The Ages" Module

[brianmcfa]

I see this is becoming the red ship mod

Only because the Ferengi are so short on ships. They also happen to be the section I'm working on right now for stats, along with a few minors yet. I started doing the Yridian scout in Starfleet colors but didn't really need it so I didn't finish it... yet:

[brianmcfa]

Here's the update on my Ferengi fleet:

Scouts: Yridian Class (TOS Era), Bronta Class (TNG Era). Still working on ENT, TMP, and NEM era scouts.

Light Destroyers: Ngort Class (TNG), Klingon K'Vort (NEM) I think that'll do it for this type.

Destroyers: Tokorn (TNG), Still need several destroyer types

Light Cruisers: Suliban Cruiser Class (ENT), Vulcan Class (TOS), Goront (NEM). Still working on a TNG era, maybe a TMP too.

Heavy Cruisers: Glantor (TMP), D'Kora (TNG), I might use an upgraded D'Kora for the NEM era or a new ship.

Strike Cruisers: Ooron Class (TNG), still wanting at least one more for NEM era.

Colony/Troop: Bajoran Class (ENT), Tomax Class (TMP), I may use the Toran or Sheliak ship here, still thinking about them as Cardassian ships though.

Starbase & Outposts are just the original vanilla ships so far.

[brianmcfa]

I think this is what an early Ferengi destroyer is going to look like, I'm thinking it'll be an ENT era ship. This is the Katarian ship recolored. (On a side note, did anyone else notice that the original ship is upside down?)

[brianmcfa]

For anyone that hadn't seen it, this is Jigalypuff's Suliban Cruiser. I did lighten it up a little to more closely match the other ships. Since this is ENT era anyway and it does somewhat look like the Ferengi ship that was shown in the series, I thought it would work okay for an early Ferengi Crusier.

[brianmcfa]

This was one of Siggi's ships. It might end up as a NEM era destroyer.

[brianmcfa]

Well I can see now that the first of the year was a little too ambitious. Maybe March 1st for a test version.

[thunderchero]

Well I can see now that the first of the year was a little too ambitious. Maybe March 1st for a test version.

we will still be here.

you always hope for the best, but with this game expect it to take longer.

thunderchero

[SeaBee-T]

However long it takes, I will just continue to wait and stalk these forums for the newest mods.

[brianmcfa]

Well, I haven't accomplished much recently but I have been dabbling with the tech levels. I'm trying to decide if making the techs harder to achieve, as in more research points needed, would improve gameplay or not. I had initially updated the techs to make 20 tech levels. Now I'm debating whether the initial 10 techs would stay the same to achieve or if they should be halved or even increased.

Since I haven't played a lot of other mods with this update, I don't have the experience on the goods, bads, or uglies. With Stardust's mod, I usually could achieve higher tech levels right as my leading systems were completely upgraded. Some systems were just finishing their upgrades and immediately went into the next level upgrade. I know some people really hate having to upgrade structures all the time, but I see it as part of the game's balance on whether to build ships or infrastructure. I'm debating on the auto-upgrade for buildings for the same reason and I'm leaning towards leaving that out and continuing the upgrade building requirements.

But back to the tech points, in the few trial runs I've tested, I've found that I in the huge maps that I like to play, I never really get to the 20 tech level and the most advanced ships before I win. In a sense, that's what I wanted because there's tech advancement all the way through. At the same time, getting to the bigger and badder ships seems to take forever, but as long as there's advancement, the ships just keep getting better. Suggestions?

[thunderchero]

Hi brianmcfa,

That is a tough one

I know most players prefer a little longer research than vanilla. but myself I prefer it quicker when there are more tech levels.

thunderchero

[brianmcfa]

Okay, tinkered with the science enough that I think it'll work out okay. Now I'm doing some buildings. From Stardust's mod I'm going to keep a few things like the local government. I did like that one in particular. I was also thinking about doing something similar to that in a few other areas.

One structure I was thinking of was off-site training academies. I read in another forum about there being more than one academy and the example that was given was Wesley's entrance exams at a remote location. I was thinking about making a training center that might have a training rate of 5 or 10 that could be built anywhere and wasn't restricted to one per empire. I don't think it's unrealistic to have an outlying system where you can station a fleet and at least have some training happening. The only problem I have is that I can't figure out how to keep the starting experience level for ships built in those systems to start at 0.

[Badbru]

With respect to science and research I'd vote for a longer time/higher requirement. It is supposed to be an "All the Ages Mod" afterall, so you should get stuck, so to speak, at the various development levels. People who don't like that don't have to play Tl 1 games or even this mod. UDM 3 caters to the higher Tech ships nicely.

[adi]

Now I'm debating whether the initial 10 techs would stay the same to achieve or if they should be halved or even increased.

I am playing quite a lot, TC's UDML mostly, and i also tinkered with the research levels and research output (universities, the Subatomic Simulator and the research bonus buildings); i have 15 tech levels in my version.
For my taste, i found that i prefer to be able to reach top tech level (i.e. ships) in something like 180-200 turns starting at tech 1; starting at tech 9 it still takes me 150 to reach top tech (15).
There is some variation, of course feds go a bit faster than the rest. It also depends what minors you might encounter for the research bonuses.
But the general idea is that longer than 200 turns, the game slows down on large maps.
If research is faster than that like 125-150 turns your systems can barely keep up upgrading and building buildings; you wont build ships because your systems are busy and the better ships are just a few turns away. I tried to get around this and keep ships relevant by making them upgrade up to or close to top tech. But then the AI with it's 300 up to date ships vs my 50 is too strong. So i settled for 2 tiers of ships; first one starts at the beginning and upgrade up to 70% of the tech tree and the 2nd tier stars more or less just above half the way through the research and upgrades up to top tech.

That was my playing experience; strictly single player.

But yours is All the Ages mod so maybe you should consider a few stages depending on how many "ages" you have imangined; like tech 1-5 takes 40 turns, then you need 30 turns to get to tech6 - the new era, then tech levels go faster again, again a gap to the new era.

[brianmcfa]

Well how I've kind of worked it out was that so the top techs are reached at around 300 turns with 20 total techs. Time wise, I make it so each turn is a year starting around 2150 and topping out in 2450. Since we obviously know the most about the Federation, I use them as my base for techs and ships and then fill the other races in around them to be balanced both tech and ship wise.

A rough example is starting with turn 1 (2150) you'd have a DY-100 as a colony/transport with the Intrepid-Type ship as a warship. (Since the NX class was new, it isn't immediately available but you get it quick.) The Constitutions become available around 100 turns, Excelsiors around 150, Ambassadors around 180, Galaxy around 200, and Sovereign around 250. I'm then making a Sovereign II at 300 and some other bonus ships. So far this seems to be working but in the test games I've played, it still feels like it needs a little more stretching out.

My overall goal has been that most of the expansion and early contact occurs with ships from the movies and early TNG ships from turn 100-150 with then as empires bump into each other more, the heavy ships and battles start happening around 200 with mostly TNG era ships. Full blown wars should happen around 250 and that's when the true warships start showing up.

This would be the goal for a large map the same size as Stardust's original. In the mediums, the movie to pre-TNG ships would be the major wars and in the small the Constitutions would be the battlers with Excelsiors coming into development.

[SeaBee-T]

I've been following this closely and I love that plan! I'm looking forward to giving this a whirl when it's done.