BOTF 2?

Post by **ruthlessferengi** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:06 am

i played one of the first versions awhile while back (it was Christmas, that much i remember) - mp worked like a swiss (pardon, german) clock - i used to check connection problems for botf vs bote - if it worked in bote, it wasn't internet to explain the no-connect in botf:)

but then it did not have an ai:) can't wait for english version, as i can't really get german to work well for me

Post by **Malvoisin** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:14 am

yes, except tactical battles. The new version will have the AI set on EASY to make it easier for beginners to get into the game without being wiped out quickly.

In german Alpha5 version it is already set on EASY. you can change that by opening bote.ini and reset difficulty to BABY, NORMAL, HARD or IMPOSSIBLE (case-sensitive).

since the english version isn't out yet, english mods can't be made right now so there's no trek mod atm., ruthless.

Post by **Killer** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:47 am

Hmm, I have tried the new version of BoTE and I am really disappointed by the lack of ST content. It is just strange to play a BOTF without ST. I still do not understand why ST content was removed. Yes, I know about the copyright, but is just a nonesence IMHO. Take a look at the Supremacy. Right now, BOTE is just another space strategy. But there are plenty of these. What made it different was the ST content. It seems I will have to wait for a ST MOD or hope that Supremacy will be finished some day.

Post by **Malvoisin** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:30 am

I explained it at the trek mod page at star-trek-games.com

Supremacy is made by someone living in the US, that's the difference. There are different copyright laws and understandings in US/UK and Europe. If you don't believe me, read this: http://digg.com/movies/Banned_Warhammer ... tus_leaked

It's really the archaic german or continental-european copyright that makes it impossible to be as sure as Supremacy is. I mean Supremacy is even listed on gamespot.com, a site owned by CBS which itself owns Viacom and Star Trek so enough said I think.

On the other hand there was this issue with Bethesda's Star Trek Conquest and people complaining at their official boards about BotE being "a better botf2" than Conquest back then 2 years ago. We were not crazy to continue doing trek under that circumstances. If enough people want a trek mod, then there is one one day. I don't see any difference and why we should risk being banned the same way as those Damnatus guys were. Plus we already released the game unlike them. I don't need that risk.

Changing a few ship pics and texts here and there isn't really going to be a major problem for experienced modders. We have put a lot more work into the game so far...

Post by **Mentat** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:01 am

You are absolute right Malvoisin and I know Sir Pustekuchen considered this decission well. I am absultely sure we will see a ST Mod for BotE sooner or later.

@Killer: Just another space strategy game? Name me two "actual" space conquest games that are playable. I would personally say nothing much beside SEV on the market, not to add that SEV is another one man show project, which actually is not free to obtain.

Post by **Killer** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:29 am

How about Galactic Civilizations II or Lost Empires Immortals? And for free you can always get Master of Orion II somewhere. It is even worse as it copies BOTF to the letter and then tells us it does not have a ST content because of copyright. But do not take me wrong. I admit that the creators of BOTE put much effort into it and I really hope a ST MOD will be made soon.

Post by **Malvoisin** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:35 am

It does not copy it to the letter, enough things are different.

Game mechanics can't be copyrighted, there is even a court case about it: http://www.daledietrich.com/gaming/nova ... copyright/

A few other sites to the topic: http://www.godsmonsters.com/?ART=77
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/328256

I know it's difficult to really dig in to such boring stuff as laws in general, but please, if I may say so, don't jump into conclusions next time, be they ever so near as this one

but have an open discussion about it without calling everything "nonsense" right from the start.

Well, since there is no such legal term as abandonware, downloading or offering MoO2 is certainly clearly illegal. So it's not for free actually.

Post by **Dewbacca** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:56 am

Again, I like the Star Trek, but its not a genre that lends easily to game mechanics as it deals with the nobility of the human spirit.

It's flip flopped on cloaking devices, timelines, empire sizes... its also a "developed" storyline that forces limits on a game. Case in point, there can be no "Vulcan Empire" because that's not what happened.

I've often lamented that BotF couldn't rise above trying to meet ST fans expectations and be more free form. Allow Minors to grow, perhaps no defined races to become empire, but rather a random chance determined by the growth rate of nearby planets or an "Empire" seed AI that took over at some point.

To claim that the lack of that material limits Malvoisin's efforts is wrong minded imo. Instead I feel it gives the BotF game mechanics an opportunity to grow on their own independent of the limitations of the ST Universe.

Post by **Malvoisin** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:12 pm

yep. For now, we have made it possible for modders to mod in as many major races as they want, not being limited by 5 or 6 major ones as with botf or former alphas of bote. In the end, a system like you presented, with rebelled systems forming a new counter-empire or minors becoming "mediums", i.e. colonize and spread out forming alliances but no memberships are medium-term goals. From there it's only a short step towards minors becoming mediums and then even not-predefined majors.

About Star Trek and limitations, well I wouldn't see it so strict with canon. I mean they redid the whole story with Vulcan getting wiped out so I think in doing so, they opened the door at least to versatile random development of races as it is done in botf for example.

Post by **Dewbacca** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:56 pm

Also room for "explaining away" differences with the parallel universe theory, but there is still the Primary Cannon that everything is measured by. That is defined and everything else is measured and accepted or declined by how it interacts with the primary cannon.

Even BotE at its final incarnation will not be all a turn based strategy game can be, but with the open end for the community to build upon, it may be eternal in many respects.

I stand by my assertion that it will be better off as a standalone game with the option to "flavor" it with content of the player's choosing.

Post by **Malvoisin** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:50 am

sure, I didn't question that. just saying Star Trek can handle alternate timelines. But you're right, it would be hard to accept for players if Mizarians became the super-power of all quadrants for example

.

Post by **thunderchero** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:01 am

Hi everyone

since this topic had nothing to do with modding of BOTF I have moved it to general chat.

but feel discussion should be continued on the site where it is being developed?

At the request of many members all of the posts between KrazeeXXL, Malvoisin and Flocke have been removed.

if anyone would like to read them. They have been save as complete html here.

deleted posts

These files will not be saved for long.

thunderchero

Post by **Malvoisin** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:44 am

With regards to what happened here and in agreement with admins, I edited my previous post where I posted the download link for Birth of the Empires in such way that comments about it should be posted in the respective english and/or german forums of BotE. This also holds for Star Trek Supremacy I guess. Links if needed can be found there on page 2 or at the web links section of this site.

Post by **Malvoisin** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:19 pm

The english (and german multilanguage) Alpha 5.1 version of Birth of the Empires is out: BotE Download page at star-trek-games.com

I invite everyone to have a game or two, it's sure fun to compare it to botf and so on. For deeper feedback, please use our german or english forums that are listed in the links section here or on page 2 of this thread.

A closer look at bote.ini file (auto-generated at first game start) is worth it cause you can set AI difficulty levels and star and minor race density there.

Here's a screenie from one of the races (click for full view):

: con_xibrenfleet_png.jpg (51.05 KiB) Viewed 6450 times

Post by **HsojVvad** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:10 am

The screen looks very good. Oh how I wish this game was out, and I could buy it and play it.