Botf as a browsergame

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Tethys
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Post by Tethys »

Ive been following this thread for some time now, but have not had sufficient thoughts to post. So here I go:

Gumba, they are just telling you like it is. Its not meant to be taken dishearteningly, but more like "in all reality, its a good try, but its not star trek" kind of way (Star Trek 2009 ring any bells?)

Change too much or a significant thing about it, and it throws the rest of the universe off balance.

Were not saying it cant work, but if you want to make an exact replica of BotF, then yes, it cant work. There are too many limitations and if you plan on collecting a fee to play the game, then you can kiss the name Star Trek, BotF, or any trek content goodbye from the game (See Birth of the Empires for example)

If you plan to make the 'browser game' moddabe (is this possible?) then it might work, but then you need someone who is willing to even make a BotF mod for it. That should prove a challenge as well.

All in all, for an idea, its good. In practicality, not so much. I hope I didnt offend, there was no intention on my part. Just telling how it is.

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Post by gumba »

No offense, not at all. This had been a very good recap and explains the reactions.

I had the same thought about making the game moddable. Theoretically - it´s possibly. But it would be close to impossible to implement such a feature due to security reasons.
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Post by KrazeeXXL »

gumba wrote:The main question which is the most annoying for me right now is: aim for a clone, or aim for a continuous game ?
I don't understand what you meant with continous game. Is it supposed to be playable by hundreds of players at a time where everyone has a system in a galaxy?
Flocke wrote:it simply won't be botf :lol:
hm not even if it was a clone? I mean I would like to play this game in my browser onto my droid.

I guess your post was about atmosphere Flocke? I know what you mean. BotF's atmosphere is really unique. And I guess for everone who plays this game there are different important aspects which but as a whole create this awesome "Botf-Feeling". This could be destroyed easily.

Here on one side we've got the mp nerds like RF. then we've got the modding geeks like Tethys on the other hand. I for myself played lots of "endless" sp games. So I like the micromanagment about the game and like to see how my empire grows. The battles are a nice bonus for me. But BotF w/o battles would be like (a) "Risk".

I meant not to offend Risk. I really like it as a game to play with some chips and beer against some good friends. But not as a browsergame/computergame at all.

gumba wrote:But it would be close to impossible to implement such a feature due to security reasons.
I think that is the problem every browsergame has troubles with. With creating such kind of game you automatically have to deal with such kind of problems.

Making this game easily moddable for everyone in aspects like ships, races and other stuff would be very positive from short -to long term sight.

I'd like to be able to play f.e. Star Trek as a base and then be able to develop my ships (nacelles, saucer, etc like they did nicely in STO) or even create new kinds of ships like f.e. in MoO2. Or even buildings... I like to tweak all things tbh. (so I'm the nightmare for every game developer :lol:)

I've imagined the game running and encountering Vulcan's 359th incarnation. :lol:
So the same for the minors. I'd like to see the known Star Trek ones, but it would be dang cool to see some from other shows, too. Or even to have the possibilty to create myself a new race! :lol:

Or finally Star Wars vs. Star Trek could become reality :lol:

there are so much ideas what you could do.
gumba wrote:Im in a brainstorming phase to collect ideas, possible solution and not problems. Ill try to harvest them somewhere else.
As you've perhaps noticed: I love brain-storming. ;) if you've got the right ppl then its crazy and fun :) but you should've named this thread "BotF as Browsergame (brainstorming)" b4 ;)

Pro/Contra is indeed another side. But I can fully understand RF with his post. It's his point of view and if you'd know what became of BotF and the scene then you might find some even more interesting aspects about this 10 year old game you didn't know b4.

There are many great facets about this game which made it survive this long time. And at the end you create a game for the players. (many developers seem to forget in these times)

So imo the best thing would at first to aim for a clone and expand it with things you ever wanted but never had in BotF. Just take a look at all the mods and you get a good idea what ppl wanted in this game. There are great mods which almost make BotF a new game. W/o them BotF had died a long time ago.

Same goes for the tactical combats and mp and the tournaments. All facets of what ppl made of and through BotF.

A community not just a game.

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Post by gumba »

KrazeeXXL wrote:
gumba wrote:The main question which is the most annoying for me right now is: aim for a clone, or aim for a continuous game ?
I don't understand what you meant with continous game. Is it supposed to be playable by hundreds of players at a time where everyone has a system in a galaxy?
Yes. With limited expansion-capabilities.
KrazeeXXL wrote:
gumba wrote:But it would be close to impossible to implement such a feature due to security reasons.
I think that is the problem every browsergame has troubles with. With creating such kind of game you automatically have to deal with such kind of problems.
Sad, but true. This would a uberbunch of work. But its a very interesting point.
KrazeeXXL wrote: Making this game easily moddable for everyone in aspects like ships, races and other stuff would be very positive from short -to long term sight.
Very true.

KrazeeXXL wrote: So imo the best thing would at first to aim for a clone and expand it with things you ever wanted but never had in BotF. Just take a look at all the mods and you get a good idea what ppl wanted in this game. There are great mods which almost make BotF a new game. W/o them BotF had died a long time ago.

Same goes for the tactical combats and mp and the tournaments. All facets of what ppl made of and through BotF.
I really have to think about how the battle problem can be solved within a browser environment.

The most easiest solution would be using fixed positions. Like Ikariam does.

Image

This will kill alot of tatics, but enables the player to make wave attacks. The type of units facing each other would have to become more important.

I wont be able to clone the battle system. In the best case i would clone it as a 2D battle w/o animations.
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Post by KrazeeXXL »

hm the 3d battles are important. especially because you could mod your own ships and look at them. You would lose very much w/o it. Too much for most ppl here. Seen some of the great awesome ship models from thunderchero or Dr_Breen as yet?

You could take a look at MoO2's battle system. It's a view from the topside. It would be cool to have at least that kind of battle/view but I'd prefer the one we know from BotF. Or you can stop calling it BotF ;)

Perhaps you can come up with some kind of new 3D solution? I mean this would be indeed a challenge after you wrote that you don't really see issues with the technical part. ;)

For me yea battles are a nice bonus. Perhaps I didn't wrote it exactly b4 as I should have. Between the micromanagement which can and now with the larger galaxies will take ages - a battle as kind of reward for your hard work is very important. It's like a valve to let some steam off. The better the battle the better the game.

W/o this I have to agree RF. What's Botf w/o it? Not BotF that's for sure. Perhaps a better Risk. but if I want tactics I play Panzer General 2 ("3D"). ;)
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Post by gumba »

KrazeeXXL wrote: Perhaps you can come up with some kind of new 3D solution? I mean this would be indeed a challenge after you wrote that you don't really see issues with the technical part. ;)

Aaaah mhm gnnaaaaa...no. ;)

I took a look at the Master of Orion series again. It looks easier than the Botf battle system. But in the end moving objects r quite tricky to achieve when it comes to browser-games. JavaScript as limited capabilities and i´m no flash-geek.

Ya, u r probably right that it would be "yet another risk". At least it would have a cool name - "YAR!".
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Post by KrazeeXXL »

yea it seems that you don't come around to use flash if you want a 3D battle system. :/
gumba wrote:Ya, u r probably right that it would be "yet another risk". At least it would have a cool name - "YAR!".
So "YAR" means that the project died for you?
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Post by Flocke »

gumba wrote:But in the end moving objects r quite tricky to achieve when it comes to browser-games. JavaScript as limited capabilities and i´m no flash-geek.
If using dom with js isn't sufficient, use the new html5 canvas element which already is supported by different browsers and will soon become standard for browsergames. :P

https://developer.mozilla.org/en/canvas_tutorial
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvas_element
http://www.canvasdemos.com/

oh, as for 3D, e.g. have a look at this canvas demo: http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/demooo/ ;)
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Post by Tethys »

That is amazing Flocke... i never thought this could be possible in a browser game... :P
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