NX size

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NX size

Post by geon » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:10 am

Hi all,

Having just looked at ENT 'In A Mirror Darkly', I noted how small the NX looked when flying next to a Constitutional Class ship. You can see this in on Youtube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrCCq-CP ... re=related

especially at time index 6:21 to 6:26.

and at Trekcore at http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... y2_504.jpg

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... y2_532.jpg

It looks to be a little over half the length of a Constitution.

So we should therefore be looking at a length of around 140-150m (just over half the 289m Constitution).

The official lengths for the ships are:

NX Class - 225m
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schem ... _ships.htm

Constitution Class - 289m
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schem ... ships1.htm

These figures suggest that the NX is closer to three quarters the length of the Constitution.

This is about the same length as the Klingon D7 - length 228m
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schem ... _ships.htm

Further, comparing the NX with the early Klingon Bird of Prey in episodes such as ENT 'Borderland', 'The Augments', and 'The Expanse' suggest that the Klingon ship is about three quarters the length of the NX.

The size of the Klingon ship is stated as 110-115m

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schem ... _ships.htm

This would again suggest an NX length about the 150m

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... ts_415.jpg
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... ce_480.jpg

So, do we put this discrepancy between screen depiction and official stated length as another example of shoddy and lazy special effects, or is there a case for making the NX smaller?

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Post by stardust » Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:30 am

I've always thought the NX had to be smaller than suggested ... That's a lot of ship for a crew of 89, especially given the smaller Daedalus class supposedly had a crew of 229 while the Constitution had somewhere around 400
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Post by eprahsnada » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:15 pm

I think it was meant to be very small, to show Humans just starting to explore, so the 1st ship shouldnt be all that massive or particularly impressive. At the end of the day, the inconsistency of sizes was probably just due to poor checking of the sites or whatever.

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Post by eber3 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:29 pm

A large part of the length of the NX is the nacelles. And there is that big hole between the saucer and engineering. It may be that long tip to tip, but from an volume or inside area perspective I think the NX is actually about the same size as the saucer section of the Constitution class.

It's kind of the equivalent of taking a Connie saucer and attaching nacelles to it.

Image

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Post by marhawkman » Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:17 pm

another thing to remember is the scene where that Xindi Aquatic ship stuffed the NX-01 into its hangar and jumped to warp with it there. :) So yeah, the Enterprise-A could probably blow it up with a single Photon Torpedo.

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Post by eber3 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:20 pm

marhawkman wrote:another thing to remember is the scene where that Xindi Aquatic ship stuffed the NX-01 into its hangar and jumped to warp with it there. :) So yeah, the Enterprise-A could probably blow it up with a single Photon Torpedo.
Well yeah, but that's because its defense is lacking compared to the weapons of the Connie not because of its size. The Defiant class is about the same size as the NX and a Connie couldn't dent it.

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Post by eprahsnada » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:13 pm

Then again that comes down to age of commission. The Defiant would usually put up a hell of a fight against most vessels starfleet or otherwise due to a high level of firepower mixed with its advanced engines and small size, which makes it very maneuverable and hard to hit, especially when against larger, slower ships. In a fight between the Constitution and the Defiant i think I would rather be on a refitted Excelsior class somewhere far away so as not to get caught in the crossfire LOL

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Post by geon » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:01 pm

Hi eber 3,

Yes, the nacelles do indeed make up half the length of the NX. But remember, the NX is just a primary hull with some attached nacelles. No extra secondary hull like on a Constitution, so you would initially expect it to be much far smaller.

Your image of the ships and the length of 225m assumes that the primary hulls of both ships are of identical length. However, the screencap tells a far different story.

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... y2_504.jpg

The NX saucer appears to be only half as long as that of the Constitution. The length of the whole ship also appears to be around half that the Constitution.

So, I think a length of 140-150m is far more accurate. Since this is Earth's first major starship class, you would expect it to be far smaller than the later Constitution model.

What this means for BOTF modders is that the NX is just slightly larger than a Klingon Bird of Prey scout

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Post by marhawkman » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:43 pm

That makes a lot of sense to me. :)

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Post by eber3 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:09 am

geon wrote: Yes, the nacelles do indeed make up half the length of the NX. But remember, the NX is just a primary hull with some attached nacelles. No extra secondary hull like on a Constitution, so you would initially expect it to be much far smaller.
It is much smaller, as I said it's about the size of the Connie saucer with nacelles attached. As far as your screen shot, the link is bad.

"403 Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /gallery/albums/4x19/inamirrordarkly2_504.jpg on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."

However, I assume it is a picture of the two in combat? That would be a very hard thing to make a size comparison from do to the fact it would be hard to tell in flight in space which ship was closer to the camera than the other. The closer one would look bigger in comparison to the further away one then it really is. Also we would be dealing with the NX from the mirror universe, did they every specify that that ship had the same dimensions as the NX from the Trek Prime universe?

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Post by eber3 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:35 am

Ok I went to the site and found the pic manually rather than through the link.

Image

Now I still say perspective plays a role here. Yes in this pic from this angle the NX looks like it is half the size of the Connie saucer. But the Connie is closer, how far away is the NX? Impossible to say. We know that it's not, but what if the NX was 1000 times bigger than the Connie, if there are several thousand meter between them, it would still look like this.

For example look at this shot from the reverse angle...

Image

Suddenly the NX looks as big as the entire Connie, even though we know it isn't. No, these screen shots are to hard to judge from. I've always had the impression, before ever knowing the dimensions, that the NX was roughly the same size as the Connie saucer section and according to the stated size it is. Likewise the Defiant class is roughly the same size as the Connie saucer and the NX.

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Post by geon » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:14 am

Hmm,

Don't know what's wrong with my connections. Anyway, thanks for putting up the pics!

Now yes, perspective does play a factor. In the first pic the NX is indeed half the Constitutions size (as I've stated).

And yes, the second pic does show the NX as looking bigger, again as you have said because the NX is way closer to the camera. Yet even in this picture, and even though it's closer to the camera, the NX still seems to be only the length of a Connie nacelle.

However, when you see the actual scene in the episide, as seen in the youtube connection I mentioned, the two ships are flying side by side and close together. Pic 1 shows the scene. So as to relative sizes, Pic 1 seems to show the relative difference in sizes between the two.

You have stated that

"I've always had the impression, before ever knowing the dimensions, that the NX was roughly the same size as the Connie saucer section and according to the stated size it is. Likewise the Defiant class is roughly the same size as the Connie saucer and the NX."

I'm a bit puzzled. If you are saying that the NX and Defiant (I assume you are referring to the Defiant Class Defiant) are both about 120 -150 m in length (the size of the Connie saucer), then yes, I quite agree.

But if you are referring to the stated size of 225m then I have to disagree.

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Post by Flocke » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:47 am

eber3 wrote:But the Connie is closer, how far away is the NX? Impossible to say.
Cause of the angular camera perspective, assuming both ships fly in formation being in line and not in top of each other, you can just use a ruler and extrapolate perspective lines from the nacelles and other clear marks.
That will at least give a quite good comparison of size. ;)

Using that method you'll see the NX is some, but not much, longer than the saucer of the constitution class. :P

Btw, I too get "403 Forbidden You don't have permission to access" errors on the trekcore links and images. Think it's only visible for people being registred to the site and having their cookies set.

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Post by marhawkman » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:42 am

*agrees with Flocke*

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Post by eber3 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:26 pm

geon wrote: I'm a bit puzzled. If you are saying that the NX and Defiant (I assume you are referring to the Defiant Class Defiant) are both about 120 -150 m in length (the size of the Connie saucer), then yes, I quite agree.
Yes I'm talking about the Defiant class. When I talk about size, I'm talking inside area or volume. Using only length doesn't give us an accurate idea of "size" only length. I figure size as follows, imagine the the ship as just the outer hull and everything inside being just hollow. How much water will it hold? In that respect I figure the size of the Constitution saucer, the Defiant class ship, and the NX class to be fairly equal. Defiant class a little less but still close.

Now if you're talking length, I agree with the lengths stated in the chart I posted. 225m for the NX seems just about right for the length. The saucer section of the NX is just a little bit smaller than the Connie saucer. If you look at the chart the Connie Saucer is about 12 grids long, wheres the NX saucer is about 11 grids. Connie 4 grids high, NX 3. But the NX saucer is a little fuller on top less full on the bottom compared to Connie saucer. That figured with the 1 grid less all around the diameter means that by the time you figure the nacelles and engineering section into the NX its size is about equal to the size of the Connie saucer.

But again that is looking at size, aka volume, not length.

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