TOS MOD -- suggestons and ideas needed please

Post by **Martok** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:54 pm

MrD wrote:Just a random thought about the Tholians as the potential 5th side in the game:
Thinking about it a litle more, I'm not sure this actually makes that much sense.
The Tholians are non-humanoid and don't live in the same atmospheres as the other races.
So they would not compete with the other for the same kinds of planets.

A valid point, but I still disagree. I think this is a case where gameplay/fun trumps realism.

The simple fact is that the Tholians have always been considered to be one of the major powers in the Star Trek universe; to leave them out of a TOS-specific mod would be almost as bad as excluding the Klingons or Romulans themselves. Yes, it may not be "realistic" in terms of what kind of planets they inhabit, but it'd be almost impossible to imagine a TOS mod without them (especially if the Gorn are included).

Post by **MrD** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:11 pm

Certainly true, but I though I might bring it up anyway.
I've also thought about how it might work despite the obvious differences in living conditons between Tholians and the others (yes, I even come up with contingencies to my own thoughts, shows how messed up I can be

):
When the Tholian terraform a planet for themselves, they'll do it to suit their own needs.
When they terraform a system that is already populated (by a minor that joined them for example) they'll do it to suit the needs of that minor.
When they conquer a planet, they administate from places with proper living conditons and let the conqered population do...well everything else since they can't.
And it's the other way around when someone conquers one of their planets.

Post by **Martok** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:46 pm

That's pretty much how I imagine/view things as well.

Post by **Peter1981** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:59 pm

Sorry to not have updated you guys and girls in ages been quite busy with christmas et al.

the good news is the tos-mod is taking shape

I've got the final minor list that I think I'm gonna use (any suggestion on this sooner rather than later):-

Aaamazzarites (TMP)
Andorians (TOS & ENT)
Ardanans (TOS)
Argelians (TOS)
Benzites (ENT background)
Bynars (ENT mentioned)
Caitians (TAS & ST4:TVH)
Capellans (TOS)
Coridians (TOS & ENT)
Deltans (TMP)
Denobulans (ENT)
Ekosians (TOS)
Exalibans (TOS)
Fabrini (TOS)
Halkan (TOS)
Kaylars (TOS)
Mazarites (ENT)
Medusans (TOS)
Metrons (TOS)
Organians (TOS & ENT)
Orions (TOS & ENT)
Talosians (TOS)
Tellarites (TOS & ENT)
Thasians (TOS)
Tiburonians (TOS)
Troyians (TOS)
Vians (TOS)
Vulcans (TOS & ENT)
Zaranites (TMP)
Zeons (TOS)

Also the Federation Ship list will be as follows

STRIKE
Soyuz (~ST2:TWK ASSUMED post-TOS era - miranda heritage)
Centaur (~ ST3:SFS ASSUMED post-TOS era - excelsior heritage)

COLONY
DY-100 (TOS pre-ENT (1996??) could use Woden see below?)
Ptolmey (TOS - technical manuel)

COMMAND CRUISER
Excelsior (ST3:SFS)
Excelsior Refit (ST7:G)

DREADNAUGHT
Federation (ASSUMED TOS - technical manuel)
Federation Refit (~ST1:TMP ASSUMED post-TOS)

OUTPOST
K7 (TOS)
Regula (ST2:TWK)

DESTROYER
Daedalus (ASSUMED Pre-TOS & post-ENT)
Daedalus refit (~ST1:TMP ASSUMED post-TOS)

HEAVY DESTROYER
Akula (ASSUMED TOS - Klingon Academy)
Akula refit (ASSUMED post-TOS)

HEAVY ESCORT
Constellation (~ST1:TMP ASSUMED Post-TOS - enterprise refit heritage)

SCOUT
NX (ENT)
Oberth (ST3:SFS)

STARBASE
Starbase (sugestions please)
Starbase (sugestions please)

TROOP TRANSPORT
Woden (TAS ASSUMED TOS since TOS-R)
Curry (~ST3:SFS ASSUMED post-TOS & excelsior heritage)

HEAVY CRUISER
Constitution (TOS)
Constitution Refit (ST1:TMP)

LIGHT CRUISER
Proto-Miranda (ASSUMED TOS - pre-miranda heritage)
Miranda (ST2:TWK)

Of the list above the following ship models are not yet avaliable
Federation & Federation Refit
Deadalus Refit
Akula & Akula Refit
Starbase???
Woden

I would love some one to model these as I think they would fit the style of this mod well.

I have mainly been working on the GUI this is gonna take several week but I hope to have a working Alpha soon(ish)!

Post by **Army37** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:40 pm

Destroyer should be Proto Miranda and Miranda Refit,

Soyuz class is about 5 or 6 years after Kirk's disapearance in the Nexus if I'm not mistaken.

Centaur class is more like a multi purpose vessel than a strike, maybe you should consider puting the Elite Class (the modified Excelsior with the add-on between the 2 warp engines) instead

NX as Scout, Daedalus an Oberth as Science vessels

Light Cruisers should be Constitution and Constitution Refit.

Heavy Cruisers should be Excelsior and Lakota.

Dreadnought should be the Ambassador class which is the same era of the Constellation Heavy Escort.

That is only my input...feel free to disagree with me afterall it's your mod

Post by **Peter1981** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:14 pm

@Army37 --
Thanks for the feedback.
I am trying to make a TOS mod, and I have drawn heavily from my understanding of the Klingon Academy (interplay) and Starfleet
Academy (interplay) games and STAR TREK tecnical Manuel by Franz Joseph.
I feel the Ambsddsdor is to late to fit into this mod but as no model of the federation class dreadnaught is avaliable (yet?) the ambassador is my second choice. the Federation class is disc ribed on page 88 of the tech manuel.
w.r.g.t.

Light Cruisers should be Constitution and Constitution Refit.

The technical manuel refers to the Constitution class as a heavy cruiser (tech manuel page 75). Given that the technical manuel doesn't reference a TOS-miranda we can conjecture that such a ship is similar in classification to the Constitution-class after the events of star trek II where Khan manages to nearly defeat the Enterprise. Thus I have opted for Light Cruiser as the mirandas.
Page 77 and 79 resp. suggest the Saladin and Hermes as Destroyer and scout resp. I might change the refit daedalus to a Saladin I think given the Romulan war history to the creation of the deadalus it still feels apt to make it an early (if somewhat out dated) destroyer.

Does any one think a s.s. Valiant as a colony ship would work? instead of the DY-100?

Post by **Army37** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:18 pm

Ok np Peter1981, thought you were using the tv shows and movies as reference....only have one tech manual from way back when...dated back from 86 or 88 don't rember exactly lol

No matter what your choices will be, I will definitly play you game when it's out.

Post by **Peter1981** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:48 pm

Thank Army37; i liked some of your suggestions and will definatly upgrade the deadalus to a saladin i think.

I've been thinking though about what you said about the soyuz, i'd like to have it in the game since it feels right somehow to have a russian space capsule namesake in this mod given the era the original series was made. I wasn't really convinced by the use of the Souze-class and the centaur-class, unfortunately the elite-class has less appeal for me as it not cannon and a bit of a shelly-class. If anyone has a TOS-era sugestion for the strike cruiseres for the Federation I'd love to hear it!

Post by **Army37** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:03 am

If I'm not mistaken the Soyuz was kind of a frigate, patrolling federation borders and escorting transports.

As for the Elite, I just said it because it looks a lot like the Excelsior and that in several mods, it's been used as an early strike cruiser. But now that I know that you're using the tech manual, you can forget that suggestion.

I presume that you're gonna build some of the ships from scratch with the help of our local ship creating Engineer team lol

Post by **Peter1981** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:40 am

@Army37

I presume that you're gonna build some of the ships from scratch with the help of our local ship creating Engineer team

I hope so -- else the tholians and gorn are gonna be a very big disapointment -- or i'll have to build them myself, which will mean learning 3d modeling and how to convert for BotF. If I have to do this the project will probably be delayed months if not years.

Post by **anjel** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:37 am

i like the idea where the saladin enters in game

. About the gorn and tholians, if thereÂ´s more ship images, iÂ´ll gladly stop the list you asked and start with those two species. Of course, i wonÂ´t be able to make them faster or sooner, but slowly i can start

Post by **anjel** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:50 am

iÂ´ve made a quick tholian ships search, and didnÂ´t find too much or none. Seems iÂ´ll start creating somes ???

well... that would be anothe challenge !!!!

But if thereÂ´s someone who has images from more tholian spaceships, glad to make them.

Post by **Peter1981** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:40 pm

Hay anjel thanks for the support

I love your K7

big hug (made me really happy to see this in the mod)

Take a look at this site it contains the original Klingon Academy main ships :-

http://www.klingonacademy.com/view.php?pg=ShipInfoIndex

I also think you could based on these make some extrapolation for yourself -- this was always going to be the biggest problem I felt with a tos mod as we saw very few ships in the original series. The Gorn ship was never seen on screen (even now I don't think there are any cannon gorn ships.) An we've only seen two tholian ships; the pair from the 'Tholians Web' and the ones we saw in 'Past Tense' [ENT]

So Anjel if you would like to make a stab at a gorn or tholian ship pack you'll need to include the following 9 models at least:-

Command ship
Strike Cruiser
Cruiser
Destroyer
Scout
Outpost
Starbase
Troop Transport
Colony Ship

When you look at it like that it seems a lot of work

but i know well get there in the end!!

Post by **Peter1981** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:53 pm

I'd like some of these for the Klingons:

TOS Battle Cruiser D7 - Painbringer
TOS Attack Cruiser L13 - Deathstalker
TOS Destroyer D16 - swiftwind
TOS Scout K29 - Reaper

from:- http://dhost.info/phoenix/phoenix.htm

EDIT: select the link above RHS select from the navigatioon bar 'Adversary Mods' and then select 'TOS klingon MOD' the pictures are at the top or the page for these four .

Post by **anjel** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:39 pm

canÂ´t see the images from the last post.

IÂ´ve entered the link from the first post, is it possible the images are a little tiny ???

Well, it would be a long work, but gladly iÂ´ll start with the Tholian starbases, from outposts to starbase !!!

, because i will start with immense station soon too