Combat mechanics

[romulan80]

Hello!

In strategy games, like botf, I often analyze the game mechanics, so I can improve my gameplay. Since I think, that I am not the only one here, I need your help.
The economic side of the original game is pretty clear for me, ( I can determine, in which turn my colony will gain enough population, or how many turn does my empire need to generate enough research, etc.), but the combat aspect of the game is "indistinct". The root of the problem is the insufficient information about starships: the game shows only the number of the beams and torpedo tubes, their damage output, furthermore the hitpoints and the shield-points of the ship. But that is not enough.
An example. 4 klingon destroyers (May'Duj class, type I) and a cardassian battleship (Galor class, type I) are engaging in battle. I only know, that the destroyers have 8 beam weapons (20 damage per beams), and 3 torpedos (36 damage per torpedo), so the damage output is 268/destroyer. The HP is 45, the shield is 140, so the total defense is 185. The Galor has 1230 damage (14 beams, 49/beams; and 8 torpedos, 68/torpedo), and 970 total defense (460 hull; 510 shield). So, in theory, if the crew's experience level are the same, and all the ships do an engage maneuver, they all should die. But I am pretty sure, that this wont happen.
So again: is there anybody, who can explain/has explained the combat mechanics of this game?

[Flocke]

not written down I assume
well with ue you can export all ship data to a html spreadsheet, however this doesn't tell much on how these fights actually play out
there are alot of things to consider, e.g. ship ramming or evade with experienced light ships
and ofc there's also some luck involved all the time
some mp guides might include more info on this

[stardust]

Tactical choices might well swing the odds as well if there's two evenly matched sides fighting one another. Certain tactical moves are supposedly very effective against some choices the opponent makes and work poorly against other moves the opponent makes.

For example, you set your fleet to charge your opponent. Charge works well against flyby and strafing maneuvers so if your opponent have done this you'll hammer them. If they've decided to circle or harry you then you're in trouble because Charge doesn't do so well against this type.

[romulan80]

Yes, charge works well against flyby and strafe maneuvers, but my problem is: how? What bonuses it gives to the ship attack and defense? Also, charge is a close weapon range maneuver, which fact indicates, that there are weapon ranges in the calculation too. But again: how does weapon range work? Does a battleship have long-range weapons, a cruiser middle-range weapons, and a destroyer close-range waepons? Or they all have the same range, but on close range they get bonuses, like higher chance of hitting.
Btw. is there a % chence to hit factor too? I have read somewhere, that romulan starships have better targeting computers. Is this fact modelled in combat, or is this just a hint, that every romulan ship class has a greater computer tech level requirement, then ships of the other races?
And what is the matter with evade and ram maneuvers? Can you always ram, when you wish to do so?
Same questions with the crew experience. How does it work?
So many questions, so few answers. You see, in other strategy games I can relative precisely determine the outcome of upcoming battles. But here I am like: "I have 9 cardassian destroyers, and 5 cruisers, all with regular crew. Is that enough against 22 light raider IIs, and 6 raiders?" I do not know.

[gentle]

So you are playing vanilla.. right? It is very unbalanced vanilla try UDM or other mods. Also you have a miss percentage who can make the difference.. and also ram.. For your question.. i think is enough if you play versus ai but same fleet will loose versus human player.

[thunderchero]

Flocke gave you the best suggestion,

Look at the ship stats with UE.

things that effect combat

accuracy of beam and torpedoes
number of beams and torpedoes
beams and torpedoes multipliers
beams and torpedoes damage
beams and torpedoes range (min and max)
defense
agility
shield recharge
shield strength
hull strength
tactic used (orders given)
experience
cloak
tech level of weapons
tech level of energy

I am sure their are even more variables I am forgetting.

plus this is still turn based combat. ship A fires, ship B fires, ship A fires....... until all ships have fired.

thunderchero

[romulan80]

Well, at least I can see now: there are much more parameters in the big calculation, even if the concrete mechanics will remain hidden in the gamefiles.
Thank You All, for all type of your answers!

[adi]

Well, at least I can see now: there are much more parameters in the big calculation, even if the concrete mechanics will remain hidden in the gamefiles.
Thank You All, for all type of your answers!

Combat mechanics is complicated, but wining the combat is simple enough (if you bring enough ships to the fight).
First you need firepower, necessary but not sufficient; to have a good chance to hit the weapons accuracy has to be more than the enemy ships defense; the more Accu vs Def, the better (see columns 18,19,20 in the picture). Otherwise the firepower is useless.
Like people hinted look at the stats from UE:


Then when it comes to orders, ships behave like dog fighters; order your ships to attack ships in front of them; otherwise torpedoes are not firing and that firepower is lost; i know they are supposed to have aft torp launchers, but they are "off-line" - polarity must be reversed on those or something ;
bottom line, let the AI do the dumb circle maneuvers.
Also for efficient damage distribution, don't let your ships fire at a group of ships, but give your ships individual orders and concentrate your firepower on a few enemies; easy to do on a small encounter, more difficult on a bigger one. And try to retreat your ships that have taken damage; if they succeed you'll have them for the next battles.

[thunderchero]

Then when it comes to orders, ships behave like dog fighters; order your ships to attack ships in front of them; otherwise torpedoes are not firing and that firepower is lost; i know they are supposed to have aft torp launchers, but they are "off-line" - polarity must be reversed on those or something

this has been discussed before about phasers (not torpedoes, they fire from center of hob/model), but not tested thoroughly. here is a couple quotes from SCT.

0xC0 looks especially interesting:

Code: Select all

0052C551                 cmp     eax, 0C0h

I just tested a Brel / kl1 with 0xC0 and and it was able to fire 180 degrees backwards. So the values have a major importance for tactical battles, not only for cosmetic aspects. Since e.g. the ship scale is affected by hob and trek.exe slots (with different side-effects), figuring the whole mechanism could be very intricate...

This was a discussion about phaser slots, all new models only use a value of 01 or 01-08

But since very few if any models had rear phaser slots assigned it was never tested. but might have some effect to torpedoes also?

thunderchero

[adi]

So even phasers are less effective when the ship is turned away from the target ship? All i observed was that phasers still fire, even backwards; but torpedoes don't. So in the combat i avoid doing the circle manuvers; the most exotic thing i do with scouts and destroyers is evade. Otherwise just charge, assault and fly-by/strafe.

[thunderchero]

So even phasers are less effective when the ship is turned away from the target ship?

As I stated I have never tested.

thunderchero