3D Galaxy Maps?

[cleverwise]

Hello Community,

I know this isn't possible with the current BotF but I was wondering who else would find it interesting to have 3D galaxy non rectangle maps instead of just 2D rectangle? After all space isn't 2D.

[Flocke]

what do you guess since when I have 3D maps on my wish list?
too many years to count
anyway, it's real problematic when it comes to gameplay cause it's hard to visualize and keep playable and even when you've a 3D monitor it's still very hard to keep the overview plus tactics differ alot.
but already 2D maps rendered in 3D space with zoom & rotation would be great, eventually also allowing to zoom in to a system.

and well, don't say it's impossible. it's impossible as long noone has written it but the main dependency restricting it is the ai implementation that needs to be reimplemented too.

[cleverwise]

I agree in the current engine no way. I know it could be tricky and confusing to manage. It always comes down to how it is engineered.

Sins of a Solar Empire kind of has the right idea. It isn't really 3D but heading more in that direction. Plus when I say 3D, to be clear, I am not talking about something that extends out of the monitor (like Amazon Fire Phone does) but just vertically stacked systems along with horizontally stack systems.

We need to find a way, one day, to do a kickstarter type compaign like Total Annihilation has done. I know, I know, licensing and all but nothing is impossible. The one good thing of JJ's movies is the building of interest in ST again.

I think the licensing is less of an issue. The biggest problem, with anything, is funding a project. Birth 2.0 on a modern game engine which I know we have all thought (and dreamed) about could happen one day. It is far from never.

I guess I'll just have to break down and become a billionaire and fund the project myself! Dern guys the things I have to do for the community! ;-)

[Flocke]

Sins of a Solar Empire kind of has the right idea. It isn't really 3D but heading more in that direction. Plus when I say 3D, to be clear, I am not talking about something that extends out of the monitor (like Amazon Fire Phone does) but just vertically stacked systems along with horizontally stack systems.

A map like with Sins of a Solar Empire could be done for sure as it's just 2D in 3D space.
And once you have 3D rendering it makes no real difference with the engine whether your monitor is 3D or not. Just mapping it to 2D without loosing the depth information but keeping it obvious and simple to use is problematic. There are a few tricks one can do but already selecting a system behind another system is problematic, specially when it's an empty system. It has a huge impact on the whole play control interface, not to talk on the whole gameplay.
And when you take a look on other games implementing it, I've not seen a single one which does it well and none at all where the gameplay seems to benefit of it.

I guess I'll just have to break down and become a billionaire and fund the project myself! Dern guys the things I have to do for the community! ;-)

I count on that!

[cleverwise]

Yeah it would take some consideration about the interface for 3D. One method might be an angled 2D map similar to current BofF but again at an angle with slight 3D effect. Then when you click on a square use the scroll wheel on the mouse to zoom in where you see the vertical stacked systems.

[Weedwacker]

This would be amazing and make the game so much harder and random. I love playing action games, like Splinter Cell for instance has Spies vs Mercs. The spies utilize the entire environment while the mercs play closer to a traditional fps, therefore so fun just to drop on people, unless they are droping mines as the move along lol. Same princple here, defending ur borders from a 360 degree frame of mind is just so much more interesting. Also use of the setting irregular galaxy would be very neat for empire placement on a 3d plane, keep the boxes for distance and travel time, just do it in a 3d setting. So many ways then for covert tactics, finding weak spots in someones territory, planning flight paths for black op missions, instead of just adding resources for esp or sab, u can make a team with a high prority mission (causing rebelions on subjacted systems, attacking specific targets (sols ship yards...etc) i'm day dreaming now.

I won't be on game ranger for abit, life threw a curve ball at me.... hopefully i can have the old pc back up and running within a weak, i missed a game sunday, saw ruthlessferg and i forget who else.

[cleverwise]

Yeah it would really make the game more dynamic and fun. If it is done well.

I agree playing BotF on an older PC seems to be the best. I personally use a laptop from 2004 running WinXP Pro. It works better than fighting with Win7 or the horror that is Win8.

[HsojVvad]

3D maps? Frack it. After playing a 3D map Masters of Orion and then with Sword of the Stars, a 3D map is not that is it's cracked up to be. Great at first, pain in the ass later.

[cleverwise]

Well it would all depend on how it is done. I understand most concepts would be very confusing, however I am sure there is some interface that would work. One idea is a view from the side tilted so a player could see the systems stacked and horizontal. A view either from the top or side would flatten the map then use different colors to indicate the levels.

As an example seeing the the map from the very top would be much like BotF but there would be a color key to show which vertical stack ships and/or systems were located. Of course, I know I know, it depends on how that looks and is presented. Space isn't 2D and it seems a 3D map would add if, again I know big IF, it was done well. Still the Internet wasn't built in a day and neither is a good 3D interface. When mobile phones came out they were like car batteries such as in Lethal Weapon. However look at what we have today.

[thunderchero]

this image is part of the stbof.res (not used)

hb_cubev.jpg (283.74 KiB) Viewed 5145 times

I wonder if 3D galaxy maps was considered during original development of game? although this looks more like combat.

thunderchero

[cleverwise]

Well that is interesting. The battles should be more 3D than they are now.

I understand HsojVvad's concerns about a 3D galaxy management screen. It would have to be very well thought out. An interesting challenge to say the least.

[Flocke]

I understand HsojVvad's concerns about a 3D galaxy management screen. It would have to be very well thought out. An interesting challenge to say the least.

I have seen no attempt so far that works well with 2D mouse input and 2D monitors. Mapping 3D space to 2D is a general problem e.g. also for flight control and they found no good solution either.
Even though you can add some clever controls it always makes the game control harder and more complex and in the end easily harms gameplay.
But try find a good one.

the screen above looks nice but with a big map and many objects they overlap in depths and when objects or empty space is surrounded it becomes really hard to select

an idea I thought of is to control a 3d cursor first on x/y view axis then on z, but this would not help with the view
anotherone is to have an option to cut the 3d map on x/z view axis at the cursor y location and switch to 2D view with option to move the plane up and down, rotate and zoom ofc. this would allow to blend out stars not near to the plane and once in 2D view (which can be semi 3D) one could keep in that view and simply scroll the plane up and down or so
still this would complicate input a bit e.g. when moving fleets