Newbie gameplay questions

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slickrcbd
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Newbie gameplay questions

Post by slickrcbd » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:43 pm

I just picked up this game last month at the library "book sale".
I've been perusing the strategy guides in this form and site as well as gamefaqs. I have a couple questions including one that might be a bug.

The computer started building an outpost in my territory. I moved a warship to try to destroy the transport building it, but the computer moved it away the same tune I was about to enter the sector. I'm on tech level 2-3 so my galactic speed is only 1.

Once that was done, I wanted to build an outpost of my own so I could approach his territory. The computer's outpost was something like 50% done. However, the option to build an outpost in that sector was greyed out, I cannot scrap the computer's outpost, and I can't figure out how to attack it.
How do I reclaim that sector and build an outpost there?

Second, I've seen somebody recommend building a ship elsewhere and then scraping it so you can pay for a ship on the other side of your empire.
Do you get the full cost of the ship back when scrapping it in a system with a shipyard or do you take a loss there?
I've managed to get the Andorians on my side with their special structure, and I have the Benzites as well and their home system is mostly built up with heavy industry. I can produce ships much faster in Benzar than in Andor which needs quite a bit of infrastructure. Training at Andor will take ages. If I build the ships in Benzar and then scrap them when I'm just about to complete a building in Andor, will I get the full cost so the next turn I can buy the ship and get the experience from the Andorian War College without paying extra credits?

Finally, I could use a guide to battle tactics. How to pick between charge, flyby, and circle when using scouts and destroyers when playing a low-tech game. It seems that with regular and green ships, energy weapons like phasers always miss, and only torpedoes have a chance of hitting (especially when I tried the Ferengi instead of the Feds), but I get perplexed on how to predict which option is most likely to either let me fire torpedoes or stay out of the enemy firing arcs. Sometimes flyby is better than evade, but I haven't gotten the hang of it yet. Are there any guides or FAQs that talk about the different fast attack ships and how best to use the circle, flyby, evade, and circle options?

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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by thunderchero » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:11 pm

slickrcbd wrote:the option to build an outpost in that sector was greyed out
do you still see a 50% built outpost and no troop transport?
but if you hover over that sector it will display in upper left corner of map something like "romulan sector f12" if you are feds you can not build in a claimed sector. so hover over sector close to there until you find "unclaimed sector" and build there.
slickrcbd wrote:I've seen somebody recommend building a ship elsewhere and then scraping it so you can pay for a ship on the other side of your empire.
Do you get the full cost of the ship back when scrapping it in a system with a shipyard or do you take a loss there?
if you are playing vanilla (original game un-modded) than yes you will get full cost when scrapping.
slickrcbd wrote:I could use a guide to battle tactics.
no such guide, since AI could be using any tactic

but smaller ships like scouts and destroyers have shorter firing range. so at longer distance equal more misses. so charge or fly by would get you in range to do more damage. but in combat experience helps a lot, but personally i don't waste my time with training, when you get better experience in combat. but if you have no combat, it does not hurt.

have fun
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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by slickrcbd » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:04 am

I just realized something, what's the advantage of building a ship and scrapping it so you can use the credits to buy one elsewhere over simply using the "trade goods" production item to convert the industry directly into credits? That also has the benefit of that on what would be the last turn giving you a few extra credits instead of the extra industrial capacity being wasted.

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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by thunderchero » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:44 am

here is a quote from gowron
Trade goods are quite efficient if the system has no manned industry structures, giving sqrt(5) = +3 credits per turn (rounded up, of course, not exactly ^^). The more industry production, the greater the waste.
so trade goods waste credits, but if you adjust your industry you can get more out of systems

example;
max industry output 4500 (using 30 structures)
ship costs 2800 If you assign only 22 structures you will still build ship in 1 day (100 -200 industry wasted instead of 1700 industry wasted)
and this will free up 8 pop to be used for intel/research to support defense or research

now when ship is scrapped you will get 2800 credits if trade goods was being built on same turn with full 30 structures manned you would be lucky to get 250 credits (more like 200 credits or less)

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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by Iceman » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:30 pm

You can always DoW to build OPs in claimed sectors (with no stations).

TGs dont actually waste credits, what Gowron said was about _efficiency_ which is pretty much irrelevant — I think he meant it more as a mathematical curiosity than anything else.

The sqrt of 4500 is actually less than 70, not 200. Scrapping should also get you tne sqrt of industry, in order to prevent "exploits".

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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by thunderchero » Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:50 pm

Iceman wrote:The sqrt of 4500 is actually less than 70, not 200. Scrapping should also get you tne sqrt of industry, in order to prevent "exploits".
all values were made up off the top of my head, but yes it would be less (never said my math was very good)

he said he was playing vanilla, most mod do correct this exploit :wink:

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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by slickrcbd » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:48 pm

Sorry, I thought it was on a 1:1 ratio with trade goods. It doesn't say anywhere in the documentation and I haven't experimented enough. Are you saying it uses the formula
CREDITS = SQRT(INDUSTRY)
when using trade goods?
I see how producing a ship and scrapping it is more efficient then.
Do you get the full industrial cost from scrapping a structure as well? If so I'm going to make sure all my planets are set to "auto" instead of manual since it usually starts building a structure instead of trade goods when the build query runs out if set to "auto". If I forget to cycle through the planets in my empire some turn when something finished building, I can always wait for the unneeded structure "auto" chooses to finish and then scrap it.

As for mods, I'm new, I've had this game for only a couple of weeks, of which I haven't had much time to play it. Are there any "must have" mods that even new players should be using?
All I've looked for are official patches, as I've done whenever I pick up an old game as ever since the mid '90s games have seemed to always ship with bugs that need patches. I think they were just following Microsoft's example with Windows 95.

Some games like Baldur's Gate or Temple of Elemental Evil have third party patches or mods that are often highly recommended to new players as they fix bugs and annoyances. Others like Starfleet Command they recommend you stick to the official patches only.

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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by thunderchero » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:38 pm

slickrcbd wrote:As for mods, I'm new, I've had this game for only a couple of weeks, of which I haven't had much time to play it. Are there any "must have" mods that even new players should be using?
"must have"
multi installer, is a full game installer that creates backups to install mods and has all official and non official patches already part of installer
https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/get-f ... =21&ssid=4 (download page)

mods this depends on play style and interests

balance of power, is well balanced but uses very few new models and removes most of the exploits
https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/get-f ... le_id=1958 (download page)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=130 (info topic)

error correction mod, fixes many bugs and exploits
https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/get-f ... le_id=1958 (download page)
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2127 (info topic)

ultimate dominion mod III, adds dominion (removing ferengi) fairly balanced and all ship replaced with higher poly models and many new advancements
https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/get-f ... le_id=1958 (download page)
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1093 (info topic)

ultimate mod 5, dominion and cardassians are joined as 1 race good balance, no structure upgrades
https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/get-f ... le_id=1958 (download page)
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2692 (info topic)

Galaxy mod, dominion and cardassians are joined, borg replaces ferengi, more tech levels with less upgrades (iirc every 5 tech levels)
https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/get-f ... le_id=1958 (download page)
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1536 (info topic)

Uncivil war, gowron replaces ferengi, duras replaces klingons 25 tech level, no upgrades, new colonies get latest tech structures
https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/get-f ... le_id=1958 (download page)
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3255 (info topic)

All ages mod, starts at tos era many new model but lacks many of the newest advancements since it was created many years ago
https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/get-f ... le_id=1958 (download page)
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=760 (info topic)

other patches
1024/1366 resolution patches
https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/get-f ... =22&ssid=4 (download page)

MPR++ this is a replacement graphic engine plus much more (download link must be requested)
viewtopic.php?f=134&t=2720 (info topic)

editing tools
Ultimate editor, tool to make changes to the game files
(most up-to-date version)
UE 0.7.2dev5c.zip
(1.34 MiB) Downloaded 42 times
viewtopic.php?f=125&t=22 (info topic)
ultimate-editor-basics (basic tutorial)
adding-new-models-using-ue (adding ships tutorial)
large-map-generation-chart-and-tutorial-for-ue (larger map tutorial)

other tools/ patches
viewforum.php?f=124 (info section)

too much info? lol

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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by slickrcbd » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:28 am

I think you misunderstood my question.
The usual advice is to try a game in its vanilla unmodded form first, then start playing with mods.
However, with some games, there are either really annoying features or bugs that the official patches don't address, so some mods are strongly recommended to even first-time players.
With the examples I gave, Temple of Elemental Evil has the "loot bug" that is addressed with the "Circle of Eight" mod, and the Baldur's Gate games, in fact all Infinity Engine games, have a "fixpack" and an "ease-of-use" or their successors, the "G3 tweaks pack" that even first time players are strongly encouraged to use. While there aren't any game breaking bugs, the fixpacks address a bunch of minor annoying bugs, text errors, and oversights, and the ease-of-use packs address some of the most annoying things in the game and generally just reduce frustration without really making things overpowered even if some are borderline cheats/exploits as they do give a SMALL advantage to the player, but nothing major.

Those are just two examples from approximately the same era as this game.
I meant, are there any mods I really should be playing even though I haven't experienced Vanilla.

Also, a lot of these "exploits" I had yet to hear about. Maybe I haven't been looking at the right guides or places.

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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by trevtones » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:45 pm

Use thunderchero's multi-installer for botf V1.0.2 that is the patched version of vanilla that virtually everybody uses. I would recommend getting the full game experience in vanilla and once you've had your fill of that try the ultimate dominion mod 3 for a refreshing more up to date game experience!!!
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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by trevtones » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:54 pm

slickrcbd wrote:Finally, I could use a guide to battle tactics. How to pick between charge, flyby, and circle when using scouts and destroyers when playing a low-tech game. It seems that with regular and green ships, energy weapons like phasers always miss, and only torpedoes have a chance of hitting (especially when I tried the Ferengi instead of the Feds), but I get perplexed on how to predict which option is most likely to either let me fire torpedoes or stay out of the enemy firing arcs. Sometimes flyby is better than evade, but I haven't gotten the hang of it yet. Are there any guides or FAQs that talk about the different fast attack ships and how best to use the circle, flyby, evade, and circle options?
This will take some experimenting to find what works for you. What your ships do seem to depend a lot on what their ships do. Generally I like to keep my strikes and cruisers on the outside to keep them in torpedo range. I try to use flyby and charge and then circle and evade to kind of do bombing runs. Light ships like scouts and destroyers are usually just canon fodder and I get them in close range then evade with them. Mix up your tactics and try to remember each ship type has a range they like to operate in! Ramming can be a very useful tactic I find it works better than charge but dont ram a ship that has a stronger hull than yours unless you are on a kamikaze mission! Hope that helps a bit!!!
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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by slickrcbd » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:30 pm

Thanks for all the help, although my first question is unanswered.
How do I reclaim a sector the computer built an outpost on? The sector is not colored, not even with the "disputed territory" stripes, there is just an unfinished outpost that I can't remove or destroy.

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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by trevtones » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:52 pm

That sounds like a bug although I have never heard about that one before.

If their troop transport left the sector before finishing the outpost it should disappear. If the outpost is completed and you move a ship that is ordered to engage into the sector a combat should occur. If the outpost was completed and you had a friendship treaty or better then there would be no combat by entering the sector but that is clearly not the case!

Maybe try building an outpost in a sector next to that one to see if you can culture into it??? Very strange I've played this game for well over a decade and never seen that! Lol
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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by thunderchero » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:25 pm

slickrcbd wrote:although my first question is unanswered.
How do I reclaim a sector the computer built an outpost on? The sector is not colored, not even with the "disputed territory" stripes, there is just an unfinished outpost that I can't remove or destroy.
so was mine lol
thunderchero wrote:do you still see a 50% built outpost and no troop transport?
but as trev said that is a strange error, you can ignore it or start a new game.
saved game is corrupt. if ignored more errors might crop up.

if you want you can upload saved game and I will take a look at it.

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Re: Newbie gameplay questions

Post by slickrcbd » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:48 pm

I do actually, one was 35% (I must be going dyslexic) and another from another empire is 70% built.
Sorry, I accidentally saved over the saved game, but I've moved my ships back so you can see what I mean. I can't get rid of those partially completed outposts, nor can I complete it myself and use it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10736018@ ... 8048205288

Notice that the sectors are unclaimed? Oh, and yes, I did some credits cheating as the computer kicked my butt as the Federation, so I'm trying a sort of "demo game" to get used to things as the Cardassians using F10 for an extra 10,000 credits per turn.

Imageoutpost1 by slickrcbd, on Flickr

Imageoutpost2 by slickrcbd, on Flickr

Imageoutpost3 by slickrcbd, on Flickr

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