Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

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Amaraen
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Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by Amaraen » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:24 am

I have not played the game in quite some time, so I do not remember if it was always like this.

I am playing as the Federation and am not aggressive. I'm not even really playing to win, I'm just trying to build my civilization. I am not even asking minor races for treaties - I just keep giving them gifts until they make the offers to me (I'm trying to make myself feel more that they are petitioning the Federation for membership). I am building a strong Starfleet but I am keeping it well in my borders just for protection, because I have Random Events turned on and also don't want to look weak for an invasion. I am playing on Easy difficulty.

Every major empire completely hates me, and I am always at war with all 4 of them. This is not just one game, it has been in all 3 games I have tried to play since I got the game working. All along I have been agreeing to their demands for credits and territory. The only thing I don't accept (I just ignore) are their war pact proposals - I do not want to go to war. I have made no aggressive moves. Other nations make treaties with me and then break them randomly. I was even allied with the Ferengi, they were Worshipful towards me, then suddenly they break the alliance and declare war.

I don't know what to do about this - can't we all just get along? I'd rather not fight any war at all, but I am in the middle of a Spiral galaxy and am completely surrounded (I am winning against all 4 of them, but that isn't the point for me). Is it this way for everyone? Are we supposed to be able to have actual friendship treaties? Or am I really just that detestable? :(

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Martok
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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by Martok » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:35 pm

Welcome to the forums, Amaraen!


It's difficult to say for sure without knowing more details, but I have a feeling that's simply the usual AI behavior most players see in this game. Sooner or later, the other empires will hate you, especially if you turn down war pact proposals. (Being do-gooder peace-mongers can be tough!)
"Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal

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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by Amaraen » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:40 pm

I started a new game as the Romulans. I actually have friends with the Cardassians and Klingons. In this game I am accepting their War Pact proposals against the Ferengi and Federation. They also keep telling me that they are very happy I am doing Sabotage missions against the Ferengi.

I also did not expand very far. I only colonized about 4 worlds (in a Large galaxy) and stayed in my own little corner.

So I think maybe the 2 major things I was doing wrong was 1) Expanding fast (as the Federation I try to get all the minor races) and 2) Not accepting War Proposals. I never thought that ignoring (I didn't reject, I just ignored) War Proposals would make them so mad. I wish that there was something like in Civilization that tells you why they are angry with you.

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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by slickrcbd » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:32 am

I'm not experienced enough with this game to really comment, but I've had the same problem.

An old children's song comes to mind, and I thought I'd share in the hopes a few people crack some smiles:

http://bussongs.com/songs/nobody-likes-me-worms.php

The developers probably had the song in mind when they made the AI like that. It's old enough for them to remember it in primary school.

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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by CommodoreGray » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:25 am

I used a couple of games to test how the AI's diplomacy works and one thing I realized is you have to fight someone or you'll be fighting everyone.

Basically, the AI empires get very annoyed if you have a peace treaty with their enemy. So trying to be at peace with everyone results in everyone disliking you and eventually dogpiling you. This makes it hard to have friends as the Federation.

Long-term friendship still depends heavily on luck, though. It's always possible your ally will suddenly sign an Affiliation with someone you're fighting, and then end up turning on you. They'll also sometimes backstab you out of the blue just for laughs, but that might be influenced by which Empire it is--I've seen the Cardassians break and alliance and declare war out of the blue despite already being at war wtih everyone else, but other than that I've only seen Alliances broken if I was fighting one of their other friends.

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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by robertbc73 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:01 pm

The basics as I can recall:
If you enter enemy territory, it makes them like you less.
If you make treaties with the enemy of your ally, if makes them like you less.
If you refuse any treaty from your ally, they like you less.
Don't EVEN try to spy on your ally.
Never fire on your ally, if possible, as that will make them like you less.
Do not have your territory touch your allies territory. Leave AT LEAST one neutral square between you and your ally, if not more.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5

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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by cleverwise » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:40 pm

The AI is aggressive for sure. You are doing the right thing by ignoring treaties rather than turning them down as that results in less hostility.

Still massive expansion isn't liked at all. I have noticed if you expand quickly other powers won't be happy. Also if you are getting minors to join you in affiliation and membership treaties this will upset the other majors especially if those minors are close to their space and/or they are at war with that power.

If you don't want conflict don't play. :-) It is just part of the game. Still the bottom line is expanding fast works more than it doesn't because in the end you end up with a bigger fleet. This happens to me all the time where I am at war with everyone or the Cards are like a revolving door. Friends, war, friends, war, friends, war. For some reason they break treaties faster than everyone else.

However even when playing another power the Feds are quick to declare war. The faster you expand and grow Starfleet the slower the other powers will want to attack you. I have played games with 100's of turns where the other powers hate me like no lights on the meter but won't declare war because my fleet is so powerful. At times this gets annoying because if I am the Feds I want war and it is better to have it declared on you than to declare it when playing that power.

If you just want to sit in your corner and develop without being bothered as much put your tech at like 4 or 5 and everyone else at 2 or 3. The other powers won't be so quick to declare war as the computer does weigh military strength.
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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by KrazeeXXL » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:52 am

you just need one thing: power. and that in all regards. Have overwhelming power and scare off the AI with your fleets.

Also, expand wisely. Just take systems you can defend. Micro everything and use your economic power to get even stronger. Find a balance between upgrading buildings and ships. Sometimes it's hard to slip in some ships when you have to upgrade everything 10 times. So, you could play BoP where Gowron purged this nonsense quite a bit.

I won a game once where I had one little fight with an AI surveyor. I wasn't even scary and didn't extort money from the AI. Just secured key sectors and expanded. Sure, you need a lot of luck with the map, too.

What I like to do is to delay the contact with the AI as long as possible. When I know that the AI is in a specific direction, I explore more carefully. The later you meet them, the later their whining starts. When they meet you and you're quite powerful, they probably are going to leave you alone. When they meet you in the beginning, when you're upgrading your infrastructure and are not focussing on ships enough, you're going to have a bad time. As said before. It's all about power.

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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by cleverwise » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:59 pm

I agree that power is important and delaying contact with the AI as long as possible. I still personally expand like crazy even if I lose a few systems here and there because in the long term I get extremely powerful and retake any lost systems.
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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by KrazeeXXL » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:22 am

I never lose anything. That's really bad for moral and weakens an empire drastically. I'd rather have a system less but 20%(+) more production and research empire-wide.

But I guess it can be fun to play it your way, too. No risk - no fun after all ^^

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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by cleverwise » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:07 pm

It does hurt morale some but overall I expand a lot quicker. I often don't lose that many systems either. However I just build fleets of colony ships and send them all over the place. Yes sometimes they get destroyed but I am like the Borg (regardless of the empire I am playing). I am constantly colonizing new systems and so the "small" hit in a few lost systems doesn't hurt for long and I end up with a huge empire quickly.

Besides I think it is fun to reclaim a system and drive the enemy off my soil.
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Martok
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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by Martok » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:22 am

KrazeeXXL wrote: But I guess it can be fun to play it your way, too. No risk - no fun after all ^^
cleverwise wrote:Besides I think it is fun to reclaim a system and drive the enemy off my soil.

+1

Both of these statements exemplify why I'm more of an "over-expansionist" like cleverwise.
"Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal

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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by cleverwise » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:43 pm

Martok wrote:+1

Both of these statements exemplify why I'm more of an "over-expansionist" like cleverwise.
Heck yeah! FTW!
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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by KrazeeXXL » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:16 pm

Personally, since I tend to play epic large games, I let the AI do the work as I already have enough to deal with micromanagement. Then I use the minimal strength to conquer systems, so the least amount of buildings get destroyed.

With the modder's approach of having way way better systems, micro became really terrible. So, I tend to only colonize what's really good and needed. I leave mediocre systems for mid-late game when I need the moral boost. A bit of an efficiency thing. But then again, I'm German so this might have to do with it ;)

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Re: Everyone hates me - what am I doing wrong?

Post by Martok » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:56 am

KrazeeXXL wrote:With the modder's approach of having way way better systems, micro became really terrible. So, I tend to only colonize what's really good and needed. I leave mediocre systems for mid-late game when I need the moral boost. A bit of an efficiency thing. But then again, I'm German so this might have to do with it ;)

LOL! It's not just a German thing, trust me (although I am of partially German descent). :mrgreen:

For myself, my expansion policy is actually fairly similar to yours -- with this one major caveat: If a mediocre system occupies a strategically important location, and/or has dilithium, I'll still colonize it, even if it's less-than-good.

Of course, you and I might have very different definitions of what we consider a "good" system worth colonizing. (In fact, based upon your comments just in this thread, I strongly I suspect you have a higher threshold than I do as to what constitutes a quality system.) ;)
"Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal

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