Digging up this part of my childhood again - recommend me a mod!

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lambda_expression
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Digging up this part of my childhood again - recommend me a mod!

Post by lambda_expression »

Hey,

after starting to watch "Strange New Worlds" I got the itch to play one of the first games I ever owned again - guess which one.
Partially cause of nostalgia, partially cause I wasn't too enamoured with the series and thought "I can do better" :D

I started out with the Balance of Power mod, and it is very much to my liking. Did short trials of some other mods as well (mostly starting a game and checking the map generation and ship database, maybe playing half an hour or so in some), except for Mirror Universe (loved the lowest density map generation!) which I played for quite a bit but then some of my pet peeves started showing up and I didn't finish the game.

I've discovered a few things I like and dislike. Since I lack the time to extensively try all mods (or even just the 10 from the top 10 installer), maybe you can give me some recommendations based on these?
BOP gets a lot of these right, but some other mods have some very neat stuff too and I wonder if there's one that hits the sweet spot or close enough on everything for me.

Maybe someone can also give one-sentence summaries of what certain mods are particularly good and bad at for the top ten mods? ECM, BOP, FMP are super obvious about what they want to achieve. The rest is still very obvious in what they go for thematically, but much harder to understand in what they are going for in terms of gameplay and fixes?

If some of those are easy-ish to tweak (I'm no stranger to programming - I don't read assembly fluently by any stretch, but I am a professional C++ developer and dabble in a few other languages, on its own hex editing a binary doesn't scare me more than changing an ini; what does have me worried is that I know how many unexpected and unintended side effects changing some value in an executable can have on seemingly completely random other parts of the program), if someone can point me to posts where I can learn about adjusting galactic ranges and maybe map and star system generation/map density/map features (more nebulae! :D) in particular for the BOP and AAM (for that one also star base stats and planetary attack ship stats) executables, maybe I can even do some tweaks of my own.

Tactical combat/ship balance:

- First one is the only killer for me where I'll not play the mod. Unfortunately also one that's hard to judge within just a few hours since AI has to build/start attacking star bases first. Some mods make Starbases ridiculuosly strong, requiring 40+ cruisers of the same tech level to take down. They were too weak in vanilla (as far as I remember from over two decades ago), but some mods go way overboard imo. AI just keeps grinding its fleets into dust when I build a few. Also not fun to attack myself, although AI rarely builds them anyway. IMO one 9-ship fleet of mostly cruisers (maybe one or two scouts/destroyers) should have a decent change depending on which major attack which other major (Klingons and Roms still OP in singleplayer I guess). BOP does this one very well, AI loosing a couple destoyers here and there, maybe a cruiser or two occasionally to transport accidents, but actually being able to take them out when they send a "serious" fleet.

- I like removal/replacement and/or tweaking to make them useful of the in-vanilla-complete-garbage planetary strike ships. To expand on that, I like when there's no obvious "this is better" ships, like vanilla Defiant or K'vort. Ideally every ship has its place and purpose, even if that is achieved just by sensor range or upkeep cost or "can be thrown at orbital batteries".

- I like it when galactic ranges are on the shorter side, and when galactic speeds are not a crawl but also not too much faster than vanilla. Having something of clear-ish borders/war fronts is nice. Every stupid destroyer and cruiser being able to reach half the map without having to flip on any shipyards/build any bases outside my core just makes *everything* the front line and takes away from strategic decision making. High-ish starbase upkeep (more below) and map generation (also more (farther) below) can also positively/negatively contribute to this. Similarly, I like when not almost everything goes at speed 1 or 2 all the way into the end game, but still isn't so fast that I don't have to choose between putting all my fleets on training on my homeworld or having them available near an agressive neighbor and his 20 battleships + 10 TTs. The ranges are one nitpick I have with BOP, they go up too fast and grow too large as I progress through the tech tree. Speeds BOP does nicely IMO (I don't play large maps).

- I like it when not everything and the kitchen sink can cloak. If I had my way, not even Roms would get cloak on _every_ warship (still most for them, ofc). On the flipside, I like when some additional races have access to maybe one or two cloakable ships. No one can make me believe the Obsidian Order doesn't have a single cruiser out there that can sneak up on Starfleet colony ships! :D

Economic balance:

- I like when cash is a bit tight and I'm not constantly swimming in money to just "buy" every new minor I run into without a second thought, or instantly raise an entire fleet or two in a single turn by rush buying in every system with a yard, or always buying my way to having a new colony with all the fancy gear.

- I like when there's not too many, not too big fleets; when building captial ships actually takes at least a few turns even in systems with 40+ factories; and when there are clear differences in upkeep cost between scouts, escorts, cruisers, capital ships. And when starbase upkeep is significant enough to having to decide where I need them.

- And I'm not the biggest fan of the "new tech level? go spend time upgrading all your production facilities!" mechanic. I don't hate it, but I certainly don't love it.

- I like it when tech progression is on the slow side. I want some time to play with my just newly developed first Heavy Cruiser before there's already a "II" or some completely new class. And when I actually have time to build ships/develop colonies before the next "upgrade your Universities to level 6 now" comes along. If there's new ship models/classes rather than lots of retrofits that's great if combined with this, so tech levels feel more meaningful when reached ("Look, new shiny!"). But if tech progression is too fast I actually prefer "II" through "VI" esp if the differences aren't immediately massive/don't enable the "build this crappy thing now because it turns amazing after this tech finishes".

- Related to the above, I really dislike the "build ships you don't like, research for free upgrade, then scrap for massive cash". Not a killer since for me it's thankfully one of the easiest impulses to resist compared to exploiting other balance weaknessees (like OP star bases) against the AI. Probably cause nothing blows up when I do :D

Map generation:

- I like less dense maps with largeish voids/maps and fewer star systems. MU map generation was REALLY nice for this at the lowest density level. The same could also be achieved by having loads of anomalies, there's not enough battles in nebulae happening anyway. Lower density makes the game less steamrolly by somewhat preventing extensive early expansion and gives individual systems tactical significance (range expansion), even if they aren't the greatest production wise.

- I also really like the "place major homeworlds at edges" that MU does. Maps don't HAVE to be 16:9 for me and don't HAVE to start majors roughly equally at the edges, but it's certainly nice.

- I like when there are ALL the different star systems, from 500 max pop down to some crappy single planet max 70 system that I might want to settle juuust to get that dilithium (rare dilithium is great btw. BOP gives me slightly too much I think, but maybe I just got lucky). If almost everything is 250-350 that's a bit boring. Really good systems should be rare and worth fighting over though.

Minor and major civilizations:

- I don't mind switching the Ferengis for the Dominion but I kind of like the original five. The Fergs have a nice twist to playing them IMO, with their "be friends to make money, once you have their money zerg them with your huge fleet". I think I may actually prefer the Dominion replacing the Cards, didn't ever really play with them anyway (Wouldn't really know what they are good at? Supposedly control of conquered worlds, but I don't really have an issue with that with Klings anyway and Klings hit twice as hard in first removing the protecting fleet and again when stepping out of the TTs?)

- Minors need to be able to defend themselves, especially at the start. Fleets they don't need that much imo, that just is a single blip until its gone anyway/an easy way to farm morale if they only have scouts and you park your cruiser in their backyard. But invasion should be painful, so decent OB numbers, good ground combat strenght (ideally not solely from large pop, large pop makes them more attractive for "encouraged" participation in my empire).

- If I can build minor's ships when they are members, that's a cool touch.

Oh man, that grew way longer than expected. I hope someone's still with me down here!
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Re: Digging up this part of my childhood again - recommend me a mod!

Post by Flocke »

lambda_expression wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:10 pm Oh man, that grew way longer than expected. I hope someone's still with me down here!
Wow, that reads like a new mod announcement and shows lots of passion for the game!
Welcome to AFC pretty lambda expression! :up:
Now I already start talking to the daily code I write. I think I might be getting ill. :grin:

Jokes aside, you have lots of very valid points that also match my preference. With these many wishes you will however never find the perfect mod. Instead you have to delve into tweaking the mods or even the game code. Given as a lambda expression and professional C++ developer that also is used to hex code modding, I'd say your possibilities here are only limited by mind and effort.

Given you mentioned the map generation as one of the very first things you'd like to tweak, you should have a look at this article:
https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/botf ... ial-for-ue

Even with latest yet unreleased UE these options are still the very same, but now they are compatible with AAM and I think I already had it compatible with BOP too. I should have it fixed for BOP soon again or will at least report back next weekend.

Talking of UE I must also mention the new map editing and system generation options I just completed to tweak alot over the past few days and weeks.
Check out my development branch over here: https://gitlab.com/stbotf/ultimate-edit ... ap_sys_gen

From a coding perspective you further must know, that all what is edited on the savegames is also accessible ingame through C++ coding, given it is the very same data structures with same memory layout! Already years back QuasarDonkey had some hooks and a sample replacement for the ingame map generator in place. I included it with mpr++, my first attempt for a graphics engine replacement that however is out of service by today.
There is really amazing possibilities! I just missed time to approach any more serious re-code and extension projects yet.

Not to forget, a really great ressource on AFC is the structured modding index section: viewtopic.php?f=214&t=2924 I always find myself back there again when I search some topic of interest!

So, if I havn't triggered any hooked lambda expression yet, I don't know what more C++ coding could do! :cool:

----

Beside of this and the many mods, there are of course also some other fan projects you might want to have a look. For myself, I rather enjoy coding on the original game than any of those, but they are definitely worth a look!
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Re: Digging up this part of my childhood again - recommend me a mod!

Post by lambda_expression »

Thanks for the introduction Flocke! One of the best things when first getting into a new project is to run into someone that can give "the talk"!
And then there is the phase with a lot of reading...

I imagine with the mod executables with their various patches (and even more DIY patches for them that come in the tools/bof patcher directory) UE needs to be adapted a lot to individual (and probably also releases of) mods.
Before posting I was having a brief look at the modding section, which initially made me shy away a bit from using UE to touch versions of the game other than vanilla with it. Figuring out what is save to touch in which mods looked like it will involve a lot of, well, reading :D

Is it the same for editing the .res files? Or can I muck about in them risk-free?
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Re: Digging up this part of my childhood again - recommend me a mod!

Post by Flocke »

Flocke wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:43 pm Even with latest yet unreleased UE these options are still the very same, but now they are compatible with AAM and I think I already had it compatible with BOP too. I should have it fixed for BOP soon again or will at least report back next weekend.
That's fixed now on the map_sys_gen branch. Looks like when I implemented it 5 months back, I missed to check the galaxy generation view but just fixed the segment load. Given the numeric sector patch however is based on multiple segments, the multi-segment patch validation had to be fixed too. :???:
lambda_expression wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:28 pm Is it the same for editing the .res files? Or can I muck about in them risk-free?
I had a quick look, the individual mod changes indeed mostly focus on the trek.exe executable. Regarding stbof.res, the most heavily modded file I think is edifice.bst. And with many of the changes also come changes to the game.sav file format. :mad:
I however investigated and already fixed almost all of them.

Given UE by now has lots of validation checks and doesn't simply overwrite stuff, you further are pretty safe in using it, unless ofc there is a bug or you edit something that generally is not supported by trek.exe. Usually when there is a mod incompatibility like I identified for the galaxy generation with BOP, already when opening the edit view you are prompted with an error message like this one:
UE_validation_error.jpg
UE_validation_error.jpg (16.26 KiB) Viewed 670 times

Except of the few multi-segment patches, you also can already check on issues when loading all the files and segments in the file view.
E.g. MUM completely removed the different galaxy shape code but changed the menu selections to select different system densities:
MUM_gal_gen_errors.jpg
MUM_gal_gen_errors.jpg (176.84 KiB) Viewed 670 times

Furthermore I implemented sneaking change checks, you now can investigate before saving. Like said I however already checked all the public mods on it and fixed what I could to make them compatible. And I added meaningful file descriptions to all the sneaking changes I found.
Most of them actually were harmless and related to internal data sorting and skipped 0-terminated string value memory dump. Some however caused actual data corruption that I fixed.

With the integrated hex change comparison you now can easily check on applied changes:
UE_hex_comparison.jpg
UE_hex_comparison.jpg (176.87 KiB) Viewed 670 times

The reliability and mod compatibility of UE actually has been one of my main focuses during the whole last year, and I really improved alot on it! :wink:

Edit: One further important note, all the validation above is solely checking on stbof.res files and trek.exe segments actually edited by UE! So when you manually edit files you still need to check on applied hex patches. Therefore we also have the QD's Bof Patcher tool. ;)
Further, before you release any modifications to existing mods, best talk to the mod creator first.
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Re: Digging up this part of my childhood again - recommend me a mod!

Post by lambda_expression »

Awesome summary, thank you!
Yes, I'll probably not make any modifications I make public, since they'll be fully derivative of other people's work. And cause likely not many people would enjoy them over the original mods anyway. My tweaked JA2 v113 version has been called near-unplayable by one of my friends 😂
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Re: Digging up this part of my childhood again - recommend me a mod!

Post by Iceman »

I think you would find some of that stuff you mentioned in Supremacy :cool:
Plus, Supremacy is highly (and easily) moddable.
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Re: Digging up this part of my childhood again - recommend me a mod!

Post by Flocke »

lambda_expression wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 12:00 pm Yes, I'll probably not make any modifications I make public, since they'll be fully derivative of other people's work. And cause likely not many people would enjoy them over the original mods anyway. My tweaked JA2 v113 version has been called near-unplayable by one of my friends 😂
Nah, when you get something done you feel is a great improvement, then for sure there are people that love to try. The more of a challenge the better. The most of us know the game so well by now that even the strongest AI empire will fall. Which is also one main point of interest when it comes to hooking into and extending the code.

Like said, there are multiple fan projects around you might want to have a look.
But how much fun will it be to challenge your C++ coding abilities and reinvent and work on the only real BotF game? :mrgreen:
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