Supremacy new release

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erazortt
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by erazortt » Thu May 21, 2020 10:53 am

How does the number shown for "Research" in the "Empire Info" get caluclated? It is not the sum of all research. For example I am now in an early game with the research slider on Sol at 100. But the Empire Info shows 60. Also "Research Last Round" in the Science screen shwos the 60. How come?

PS: I think I found out. Is it because I set the game settings to have slow research?

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman » Thu May 21, 2020 12:59 pm

Yep. Slow is 65% normal rate. Should be 65, not 60?

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman » Fri May 22, 2020 11:14 am

Iceman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:59 pm
Yep. Slow is 65% normal rate. Should be 65, not 60?
That's because you kept research allocation at the default balanced distribution (16-17% in each field); it's a bit less efficient than focusing on one field at a time (which would yield 64 RPs - still should have been 65...).

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman » Fri May 22, 2020 11:20 am

Malioc wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 4:38 pm
Iceman wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 2:31 pm
Travel time depends on your tech level, more precisely on the speed of your ships at your current tech level (can't recall if it's the highest speed of the available designs). Distance is calculated from your capital to their capital, so getting to a distant civ takes longer.
Okay, makes sense. It's just weird, that a finished diplomat automatically returns home for 8 rounds, and then is send back to a star system close to his former destiniation for another 9 round. Just to retire during his second destination. ;-)
We could use your Propulsion tech level instead of ship speed to calculate travel time, which would make researching Propulsion have one more benefit (and a non-combat one, at that), and decrease travel times for TLs above 1. :?:

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Malioc » Sat May 23, 2020 10:04 am

Finally I have some time, so I wanted to come back to you. =)

In my current game (Medium galaxy, AI Mode: aggressive) I noticed the following issues. I can upload the save. - Maybe I have a low difficulty set, an old version active or I'm doing something wrong?
- AI Mode aside I see no difficulty levels
- I have the Klingon at my door step, but they are pretty peaceful so far. Don't even conquer the Halkans in their territory.
- The Minors so far are were easy to "assimiliate" and the other factions don't compete over them. For the Cytherians in one of my old games I probably spend around 10k and a decent diplomat.
- I can't upgrade facilities to higher types with the "Minor" colonies (that problem is new)
- Thanks for the tipp with the "Overview"! ;-) However in my current version/game I don't see unassigned pop there. (save game: colony Sikaris)
- Occasionally a building ends up in the Queue with "100%" instead of being build. The building is build during the next turn. I'd guess it's a rounding issue. However, in the turn before those buildings were calculated as be build within the next turn. (example Save: Nimbus)

Iceman wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 6:43 pm
Not the passive AI issue, no :wink:
There is a chance that the AIs will DoW on you, it's just slim - needs careful balancing, otherwise the feedback will be the exact opposite :mrgreen:
The Klingons and the Cardassians are more likely to DoW. I think I removed the ability of minors to DoW, but I'm not sure, will have to check. That was because it would affect the War Weariness modifier - which I changed to only count empires at war, as a consequence. I'll revisit that part when I can.

Larger galaxies tend to make you have more colonies, so naturally the MM will increase. That's where the "colony governor" AI will help the most - if it is any good, ofc :wink:
Well, it would have been logical, if the opponents adapt their aggression to the circumstances:
When there is plenty of space to settle, there is less need for war than when you are trapped with little potential of expansion. Of course, that doesn't have to be the way the AI works. It was just an assumption.

The game already allocates population automatically to Food PFs when necessary; but only to those though, and only if there are any that can be activated.
Notice that if more than half of the population of a colony is unemployed, growth in that colony is capped at 1 per turn! I have considered making unemployed population not pay taxes and not count towards fleet population support, but I'm not sure how that will affect gameplay...
I think a good automatic allocation logic for unused pop (during growth) would be the biggest improvement. If food is negative -> farm. Otherwise priority production, research, intelligence, food.
That would save a lot of daily routine. ;-)

There probably will be both an auto-upgrade option (that only deals with upgrading PFs, to reduce MM) and a colony governor (that will develop the colony according to a selection/focus: credits (Industry), research or intel).

BTW, IIRC each unmanned PF costs you 1 credit per turn; I don't think I have removed that, that is.
Sounds good, but also ambitious. Qapla to you for trying that! =)

Penalty for anmanned PF is a nice concept. I'll still keep my strategy in the current situation.
First, money hasn't been a big issue for me so far (probably because I didn't need a big fleet).
Second, I can quickly tech-upgrade my colonies and then switch the optimized colony back to research to overall gain technology quicker.

Ok, thx. The values in the build queue should already take Morale into account.
I did make a change in how morale is applied, so if you spot anything fishy, please LMK.
Changes to morale should only take effect at the end of a turn, so they shouldn't affect production for the current turn - only the next turn.
I did a couple of tests and so far couldn't find something wrong.
Maybe I enlisted a couple of One-Turn-Builds which were all done in the same round. I'll keep you updated if I find a clear example.

:lol: The new colony management AI should make the AIs a bit more competitive in terms of research - but I think it still focuses too much on industry/credits, and falls behind in tech. I'll have to tweak it a bit more, if so.
I'm kind of reticent in giving the AI bonuses in research and credits (with the AIMode option), as that is basically a crutch that might obscure poor performance. I would like the AI to be good, not helped.
Totally understand you here. I always found that quite "cheap" with the original BotF.
It would be cool, if the AI has 2 or 3 different strategies and would adapt depending on the situation. Or maybe by chance.

Oh, but Raider minors *will* raid your colonies, that's what I created that Trait for :wink: Some Warlike minors will bomb your colonies, probably those with Strike Cruisers (which are rare, probably a couple). Some ExpandingMinors will defend/intercept intruders in their territory. I'll look into minors being able to DoW.
Cool. So far I haven't noticed behaviour like that. IMO it would improve gameplay a lot. =)

If you could check now with the Hard and Impossible AIModes, that'd be nice.
Where can I find/adjust it? Like I wrote at the beginning, I can only select between Agreeable (easy?), Normal and Agressive (hard?).

Hehe.
Notice that not all personnel are suited for all careers; an agent with Combat and Evasion skills will not have any effect as an envoy. Like cards, you should play with what you're "dealt". Obviously, each civ's majority of personnel are more oriented towards their type/trait/purpose/theme/whatever.
I know.
Even though I'd enjoy it, if the usefullness of the skills als depend on the Minors personality trait.

Charisma and Empathy are probably the most important traits for any diplomat. But to have qualities that mirrors the trait of the Minor could/should be equally important, maybe even more.
For instance a warlike race respects "Combat" skills, Isolists may need additional Empathy, Submissive would appreciate Leadership and Dishonest could fit better with Evasive.
Just an idea. ;-)
Hmm? What do you mean with "a finished diplomat automatically returns home" ? Finished in what sense? Envoys should only return home when they're recalled, when they retire, when war is declared, or when the system they're assigned to is attacked (if they're not captured or die). Or when they're expelled, but that is not yet possible.
If you're experiencing something different, then there might be a bug somewhere.
I mean the situation when a diplomat returns home from a Minor due to membership.
It would be nice, if instead of returning home and then going "back" they would take the variation of a "direct" route.
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Last edited by Malioc on Sat May 23, 2020 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman » Sat May 23, 2020 3:46 pm

Malioc wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:04 am
Finally I have some time, so I wanted to come back to you. =)

In my current game (Medium galaxy, AI Mode: aggressive) I noticed the following issues. I can upload the save. - Maybe I have a low difficulty set, an old version active or I'm doing something wrong?
- AI Mode aside I see no difficulty levels
:grin: Glad you did!

I'm digesting your posts, it'll take some time, but I will reply!
I dl'ed your save, will test it to reply more accuratly. I assume it was started with the latest release? 20200521?

Difficulty level is set in AIMode :wink:
It only affects a few things for now, though. I mentioned those earlier. I'll add more stuff later. Ideas are welcome.

I'll reply to the rest soon.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman » Sat May 23, 2020 3:48 pm

Okay, makes sense. It's just weird, that a finished diplomat automatically returns home for 8 rounds, and then is send back to a star system close to his former destiniation for another 9 round. Just to retire during his second destination. ;-)
What did you mean by this, BTW? If there's a bug in there, we need to squash it.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Malioc » Sat May 23, 2020 5:15 pm

It's not a bug. Wrote about it in the first of the three posts.

Iceman wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:46 pm
Malioc wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:04 am
Finally I have some time, so I wanted to come back to you. =)

In my current game (Medium galaxy, AI Mode: aggressive) I noticed the following issues. I can upload the save. - Maybe I have a low difficulty set, an old version active or I'm doing something wrong?
- AI Mode aside I see no difficulty levels
:grin: Glad you did!

I'm digesting your posts, it'll take some time, but I will reply!
I dl'ed your save, will test it to reply more accuratly. I assume it was started with the latest release? 20200521?

Difficulty level is set in AIMode :wink:
It only affects a few things for now, though. I mentioned those earlier. I'll add more stuff later. Ideas are welcome.

I'll reply to the rest soon.
Sounds good and take your time. Just some ideas. ;-)

The save game is done with the version of May 17th.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Malioc » Sat May 23, 2020 5:28 pm

Iceman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 5:25 am
More fixes.
- fixed a few things with raiding
- only envoys of civs you're at war with are captured on conquest, the others are returned home
- it's now a bit harder to keep Mercantile and Raider minors as Members, as their Regard decreases a bit every turn; gotta keep them "interested" in being a part of your empire!
- working on getting AI WarDecs to be more frequent, will release a new build soon when this is done
In the 05/17 version I experienced no raiding or WarDecs despite having the Nausicaans and Klingons around. Will try again with 05/21 and higher difficulty (when I find it). ;-)

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman » Sat May 23, 2020 5:37 pm

Malioc wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:04 am
- I have the Klingon at my door step, but they are pretty peaceful so far. Don't even conquer the Halkans in their territory.
Yeah, the formula for DoW still needs to be tweaked. A lot.
I have it in my notes, BTW, to make it harder for any major to bribe/member any minor that is inside another major's territory. And to get some heavy diplo fallout with that major in such cases.
And/or even to require an Open Borders with the major in order to get an OB with the minor.
Too much stuff, too little time...

- The Minors so far are were easy to "assimiliate" and the other factions don't compete over them. For the Cytherians in one of my old games I probably spend around 10k and a decent diplomat.
No, AI civs can't offer treaties yet. It's a bit complicated, that code.
Like mentioned previously, I made envoys get around the Isolationist trait on purpose, but that was probably a mistake. The Cytherians should be harder to member now if you're playing on Hard or Impossible.

- Thanks for the tipp with the "Overview"! ;-) However in my current version/game I don't see unassigned pop there. (save game: colony Sikaris)
Don't see a problem there, it's working exactly as intended. Sikaris' population is displayed in red, meaning it has unassigned population blocks (just checked the system screen and it's correct, there are 2). There are 2 other systems in that situation, all others are green.

- Occasionally a building ends up in the Queue with "100%" instead of being build. The building is build during the next turn. I'd guess it's a rounding issue. However, in the turn before those buildings were calculated as be build within the next turn. (example Save: Nimbus)
Yes, I see that. Probably a rounding issue, yes.
What is displayed in the build queue (not in the build slot) is the number of turns that the item will take to be built with the current industry output. The upgrade costs 1200, the colony has 1713 industry, so that's one turn. It doesn't mean however that it will be ready the next turn. Depends on what is under construction currently.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman » Sat May 23, 2020 6:05 pm

Malioc wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:28 pm
Iceman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 5:25 am
More fixes.
- fixed a few things with raiding
- only envoys of civs you're at war with are captured on conquest, the others are returned home
- it's now a bit harder to keep Mercantile and Raider minors as Members, as their Regard decreases a bit every turn; gotta keep them "interested" in being a part of your empire!
- working on getting AI WarDecs to be more frequent, will release a new build soon when this is done
In the 05/17 version I experienced no raiding or WarDecs despite having the Nausicaans and Klingons around. Will try again with 05/21 and higher difficulty (when I find it). ;-)
Those are the changes for the 20200521 release, they're not in the 17may patch!


Also, when I said the AI will raid and bombard and whatnot, I didn't express it correctly. I meant they will, as in the future, not they can, as in now. Sorry, should have written it in a different way.

It's not a bug. Wrote about it in the first of the three posts.
Didn't catch it the first time I read it, sorry. Good to know, thx.

BTW, finish your game before "upgrading" to 20200521. I actually loaded it with that release, but there were a few changes in the bonuses that should make the game wonky...

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Malioc » Sun May 24, 2020 7:27 am

Yeah, the formula for DoW still needs to be tweaked. A lot.
I have it in my notes, BTW, to make it harder for any major to bribe/member any minor that is inside another major's territory. And to get some heavy diplo fallout with that major in such cases.
And/or even to require an Open Borders with the major in order to get an OB with the minor.
Too much stuff, too little time...
Sounds good.

This could even be connected with Intelligence. Don't know if that becomes too complicated though. ;-)
No, AI civs can't offer treaties yet. It's a bit complicated, that code.
Like mentioned previously, I made envoys get around the Isolationist trait on purpose, but that was probably a mistake. The Cytherians should be harder to member now if you're playing on Hard or Impossible.
Okay. I think, that and WarDecs currently are the biggest items missing.

Don't see a problem there, it's working exactly as intended. Sikaris' population is displayed in red, meaning it has unassigned population blocks (just checked the system screen and it's correct, there are 2). There are 2 other systems in that situation, all others are green.
Weird. I may check again. Since I'm on vacation upcoming week this may take a bit time.

Yes, I see that. Probably a rounding issue, yes.
What is displayed in the build queue (not in the build slot) is the number of turns that the item will take to be built with the current industry output. The upgrade costs 1200, the colony has 1713 industry, so that's one turn. It doesn't mean however that it will be ready the next turn. Depends on what is under construction currently.
I believe, it was even in the Queue with 1 turn. But I'm not sure.

Anyway, if possible, I would change these situations to "99%". That may be mathematically wrong, but more understandable for users. ;-)

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Malioc » Sun May 24, 2020 7:30 am

Iceman wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:05 pm
Those are the changes for the 20200521 release, they're not in the 17may patch!


Also, when I said the AI will raid and bombard and whatnot, I didn't express it correctly. I meant they will, as in the future, not they can, as in now. Sorry, should have written it in a
Ah, I misunderstood. Sorry!

Didn't catch it the first time I read it, sorry. Good to know, thx.

BTW, finish your game before "upgrading" to 20200521. I actually loaded it with that release, but there were a few changes in the bonuses that should make the game wonky...
I will. Thanks!

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by DarExc » Mon May 25, 2020 12:34 pm

Not sure if this is a bug, but I noticed once I make contact with a major alien race, if I go to diplomacy and click their capital, it brings me to the sector their capital is in, even though I haven't scanned that area yet.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman » Mon May 25, 2020 1:17 pm

DarExc wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:34 pm
Not sure if this is a bug, but I noticed once I make contact with a major alien race, if I go to diplomacy and click their capital, it brings me to the sector their capital is in, even though I haven't scanned that area yet.
Hey DarExc, thanks for the report!
I'll check that out.

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