Supremacy new release

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

geordie wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:23 pm Hi, are you going to upload new Experimental AI patch soon? As I started testing it I would really prefer go further that path...
Ask, and you shall receive! :wink:

The new EXPERIMENTAL_AI patch should be up to date with the _newAI patches, and should have a few enhancements relative to the previous version:
- the AI should not build Troop Transports, Strike Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers unless it is at war with someone
- the AI should not build Command ships in the early game
- the AI should be a bit more careful about building ships in regards to its treasury
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Uploaded a new patch that should fix a discrepancy in fleet icons for cloaked fleets between the Task Forces expander and the starmap; the starmap should now display them correctly, and be consistent with the TF expander.
The issue was with cloaked fleets that are detected but not identified - the starmap would show the fleet's owner, incorrectly, but that should be fixed now. Please check and report.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

The above issue exists also in the Experimental AI.
I played some turns using last patch and found no significant issues.
Just two observations:
- the opponent empires declare war quite easily, even without any specific reason, but after that the military action are quite passive and limited to destruction of some nearby shipyards
- there is a morale boost after eliminating other empire, but I am not sure if the former systems of that empire should also participate in that boost
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Hi geordie!
Yes, it has not been fixed yet in EXP_AI, I was waiting for feedback on it before porting it over. There's a few more fixes I'll need to make.

About the observations.
Yes, we still need to tweak the DoW parameters. It is not pure random, there's a few factors involved, but it does result in a roll in the end, so it's bound to get weird at some point. I haven't touched that code in a while, but envoys, trade routes, agreements, etc should be factored in.
The AI still does not have a global goal in terms of war; the new AI only improved the non-combatant ship types so far, the more aggressive modes are still on standby.
- there is a morale boost after eliminating other empire, but I am not sure if the former systems of that empire should also participate in that boost
You mean that if I eliminate the Romulans, any romulan colony that I have subjugated should not get the morale boost? I don't think we make that test, no... :roll: But it makes sense.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Uploaded a temporary test patch with some tweaks to AI DoWs, and the morale changes SCT mentioned. Only packed the bins.
It's late, I had no time to test it, sorry.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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I've uploaded the updated Music and Borg SoundFX files that the6the made some time ago, in separate zips, so as to keep the patches size down. Whoever has already downloaded a previous patch should already have the latest files, so no need to download them.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Iceman wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:28 am You mean that if I eliminate the Romulans, any romulan colony that I have subjugated should not get the morale boost? I don't think we make that test, no... :roll: But it makes sense.
Exactly - my subjugated Romulans became happy just after collapse of last Romulan system
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Treacherous bastards... :wink:
Should be fixed in that _TEMP patch I uploaded yesterday. If you could check please, that's b great. Or provide a savegame where I could check?

I just made some more tweaks to AI DoWs, to make it harder.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by bbpbfb »

I love the mod. I am just a little off-put by the emphasis on balance as opposed to sticking to cannon. Cloaking feels way too nerfed. Is there a way to undo how cloaked ships don't get full shields when they decloak? Also is there any way to account for the fact the Scimitar can fire while cloaked? Also many times in the show and history, you'd still see them build older models of ship even with newer available such as the extensive amount of Galaxy class ships, even though the Sovereign class had been created. Any way to allow the building of older model ships even with newer ones available? Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Will the temp patch fit to the last experimental one?
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Re: Supremacy new release

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bbpbfb wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:38 am I love the mod.
Hi bbpbfb, welcome to the forums! And thanks for your feedback.

I am just a little off-put by the emphasis on balance as opposed to sticking to cannon.
Hehe, yes, that's always a debatable/controversial topic. We must keep in mind that this is a game though, and a game that has multiplayer. For MP to be viable as an option (and actually the most interesting option), the game needs to be balanced.
The game is highly moddable though, so for SP that's something you might want to consider - some of the stuff you mention below can be modded.

Cloaking feels way too nerfed. Is there a way to undo how cloaked ships don't get full shields when they decloak?
Yep, by reverting that change in the code :wink: Seriously though, no, not by modding.
The hull of cloak-capable ships can be increased to compensate/help, but that's not really canon.
But here's what Memory Alpha has to say about cloaking devices:
Most vessels could not use their weapons and deflector shields when cloaked. Ships of the Klingon D12-class, for example, were vulnerable to attack for two seconds when their shields automatically dropped as the cloaking field formed. (TNG: "Face of the Enemy"; Star Trek Generations) Ships like the Scimitar with more advanced cloaking technology however did not have this problem, as it had primary and secondary shields and weapon systems that could remain online while the ship was cloaked. (Star Trek Nemesis)
So, it is canon that ships don't get full shields when cloaked. With very few confirmed exceptions.

Also is there any way to account for the fact the Scimitar can fire while cloaked?
This being the confirmed exception.
But to answer the question, again no, except creating specific exceptions in the code.

We can discuss this again, of course. But cloaking cannot be OP.
One thing we can do is to add a targeting bonus to cloaked ships in the first round of combat, to account for the fact that the targets are not aware of the attack; or not counting the maneuverability of the target when firing, which should be equivalent.

Also many times in the show and history, you'd still see them build older models of ship even with newer available such as the extensive amount of Galaxy class ships, even though the Sovereign class had been created. Any way to allow the building of older model ships even with newer ones available? Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.
Yes, this can be modded. You can edit the file \Resources\Data\TechObjectDatabase.xml and remove the Upgrade and Obsolete paths to tweak the shiplist to your liking. If you need help with this, we're here to help! :up:

Thanks for your input! Keep it coming.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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geordie wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:57 am Will the temp patch fit to the last experimental one?
Nope! Some changes make those 2 branches incompatible. I'll port the latest changes to EXP asap.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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You are right about the 2 second delay when they cloak and decloak. That was exploited though when they knew the ship was there either from intelligence or having already been in battle and the ship cloaked to repair/retreat. This is a turn based game which the cl.oak only applies the the start of battle as a surprise attack. No one when not expecting an attack would be able to target and fire in the 2 seconds of vulnerability. So I have played with modding/changing games in the past like Mass Effect, Skyrim, Dragon Age. But i think I'd be out of my depth trying to change the game code. I don't even know where I would start to look and I am guessing there are tools I'd need to do so.

Also the shield recharge % is that 36% of total shields? I know in vanille BOTF I looked at ship settings and some ships had that number over 100. So obviously it wasn't a percentage.
ShieldRecharge>36%</ShieldRecharge>

For the multiple ship models this is all I need to remove?

<ObsoletedItems>
<ObsoletedItem>ROM_COMMAND_SHIP_I</ObsoletedItem>
</ObsoletedItems>
<UpgradeOptions>
<UpgradeOption>ROM_COMMAND_SHIP_III</UpgradeOption>
</UpgradeOptions>
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Re: Supremacy new release

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bbpbfb wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:49 pm Also the shield recharge % is that 36% of total shields? I know in vanille BOTF I looked at ship settings and some ships had that number over 100. So obviously it wasn't a percentage.
ShieldRecharge>36%</ShieldRecharge>
Correct. 36%of its max shield value every combat round, as long as shields are not depleted.

For the multiple ship models this is all I need to remove?

<ObsoletedItems>
<ObsoletedItem>ROM_COMMAND_SHIP_I</ObsoletedItem>
</ObsoletedItems>
<UpgradeOptions>
<UpgradeOption>ROM_COMMAND_SHIP_III</UpgradeOption>
</UpgradeOptions>
Yes, if you want to be able to build all 3 Command ships (in this example) at the same time, provided they've been unlocked by tech.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by bbpbfb »

No advice on dealing with the cloak situation? Either way thanks for responding to everything else.
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