Single player geared more cannon version

Supremacy; support/discussion/questions

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bbpbfb
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Single player geared more cannon version

Post by bbpbfb »

I understand balancing for multi player scenarios. I'd like a SP only build that's more cannon based. More varied and accurate ship stats(Scimitar has the same number of weapons as a Sovereign class ship when canonically it has over 3 times the number). Cloaking that isn't nerfed(full shields when you decloak). Borg cubes with a much higher build cost but also that take a large group of ships to destroy(maybe not 40 like Wolf 359, but maybe 20?. Lower ship maintenance costs so we can have large fleets like seen in the Dominion War. Anyone else have any interest in something like that? If you have other ideas post them.
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Re: Single player geared more cannon version

Post by Iceman »

bbpbfb wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:35 am I understand balancing for multi player scenarios. I'd like a SP only build that's more cannon based.
Except for the cloaking issue, which is discussed in the other thread, all of this can be easily modded. No need for a separate build, that'd be confusing.
At some point, the game will be able to load mods, which will help with testing changes to the database.

More varied and accurate ship stats(Scimitar has the same number of weapons as a Sovereign class ship when canonically it has over 3 times the number).
Sure! But the Scimitar would then need to have a build cost ~3x as high too. And every other stat needs to be tweaked as well. As mentioned above, this can be easily modded, it's just changing a few numbers in the object database.
When the experimental AI goes live, it'll be much easier to determine AI fleet composition, which might help with this.
But TBH, Star Trek canon is, well, crap. :wink: I mean in terms of weapons and stuff. There's hardly any sense in a bunch of them. A total mess if you want to turn it into a game.

Borg cubes with a much higher build cost but also that take a large group of ships to destroy(maybe not 40 like Wolf 359, but maybe 20?.
Hmm, people have complained about exactly the opposite, that they're too tough :wink:
You could try modding build cost, shields and hull and then see how that goes.
If a single cube is made too tough though, a fleet of them, and with tactical cubes and whatnot, will just make your game not really fun.

Lower ship maintenance costs so we can have large fleets like seen in the Dominion War.
As your empire grows, so does your fleet support, and so the more ships you can have without paying their maintenance. Notice that stations are not covered by this.
So late game you can have large fleets.
Notice that these values, and even most numbers like ship stats, are very close to those in the original BotF.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

bbpbfb wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:38 am Also many times in the show and history, you'd still see them build older models of ship even with newer available such as the extensive amount of Galaxy class ships, even though the Sovereign class had been created.
This is actually an "awkward" issue with the shiplist.
Those 2 designs are actually from the same era, and there is only one slot per era, so the Sovereign was moved up to VOY (when the shiplist was created) to fill that slot (at least that's my guess).
Some of the descriptions for Federation ship designs also present some discrepancies re the timeline.
It's not easy creating a shiplist (at least for the Federation) that is completely canon and coherent and that pleases everyone.
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Re: Single player geared more cannon version

Post by Iceman »

bbpbfb wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:35 am More varied and accurate ship stats(Scimitar has the same number of weapons as a Sovereign class ship when canonically it has over 3 times the number).
The D'deridex, and the Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser and Battleship (at least) are also candidates for being beefed up.

The "varied" part will be mostly accomplished by fleet composition, which will be different for each empire; notice though that there is some variety already, with the regular/heavy versions of scouts and destroyers, different weapon damage (same as BotF) and shield recharge formulas for some empires, some armed non-combatant ships, different colonization values and different science abilities for each empire, emphasys on beams or torpedoes, etc.
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Re: Single player geared more cannon version

Post by bbpbfb »

So far it doesn't seem like there is much interest. Maybe it's just the post hasn't been up that long. I'd be willing to adjust ships to make them cannon or at least much closer. Honestly for the sake of better more realistic battles it might involve more points to hull and shields overall(longer battles more than 1 or 2 turns. Also bigger spreads in stats between ship generations. Even if only a few are interested when I'm done tweaking I'd be willing to share my adjustments.
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Re: Single player geared more cannon version

Post by Iceman »

bbpbfb wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:35 pm more points to hull and shields overall(longer battles more than 1 or 2 turns.
I tried keeping similar values to those of BotF, but those are not carved in stone.
We don't want to have battles that are too long though, after a few of those it gets tiring.

Also bigger spreads in stats between ship generations.
Yea, I also tried to keep a similar spread as in the original BotF, but those were refits, not new classes.


BTW, I just tested this battle in geordie's game, 61 Green Cardassian destroyers plus 39 minor race Veteran/Elite destroyers, vs 79 Klingon AI Legendary/Elite ships (4 cloaked commands and 5 cruisers, rest destroyers) plus an Outpost II. Total carnage... The Klingons lost 2 destroyers and the Cardassians lost 70% of their forces in the 1st round alone. :shock:
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