Playing as the Borg

Supremacy; support/discussion/questions

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Re: Playing as the Borg

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geordie wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:40 am I also assume that the Borg fleets should not attack colony ships of other empires, as they the most friendly ships for the Borg. :wink:
Yea, but as much as it favors their playstyle, I'm not sure they're really that calculistic :wink:

I noticed that the Tanugans are not at war with the Borg... They should be. Do you remember how you met them?

In order to prevent the Borg's growth from exploding after asssimilating a few colonies, maybe we should not auto-terraform assimilated systems?
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Re: Playing as the Borg

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Iceman wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:34 pm I noticed that the Tanugans are not at war with the Borg... They should be. Do you remember how you met them?
Figured out the issue, when minors become members of an empire, they are not considered to be at war anymore because they're not independent anymore. Will look into it.
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Re: Playing as the Borg

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geordie wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:40 am However there are quite close other, more valuable systems to destroy.
Good catch! That was due to some code I probably didn't finish because I got distracted for some RL reason. It was making the AI only attack colonies on the edge of its territory - that's the reason the Klingons attacked Setlik instead of other better colonies.
Should be fixed now, for the next patch.
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Re: Playing as the Borg

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Started another Borg game. Couple of issues:

1. I can't tell what determines my "income". I can support 400 points of ships, but had 425, so nothing can get built. Since I can't "buy" anything, I ended up scrapping a probe. It clearly isn't population that helps, as I assimilated 4 worlds and still have 400 max. I'm guessing it's shipyards? Had to scrap ships I was building and now waiting for new more shipyards to complete.

2. this attached game crashes. Here's the error.txt:
► Show Spoiler
Looks like more Orbital Battery stuff? I think this game his toast without some help!

Thanks!!

borg-crash.sav
(615.9 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
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Re: Playing as the Borg

Post by Warp Core Breach »

Oh, one other thought. In my Rom game (other thread), I'm guessing the Borg never built the building that adds drones. That seems like what is preventing them from expanding. Just a thought!
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Re: Playing as the Borg

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Warp Core Breach wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:24 pm Started another Borg game. Couple of issues:

1. I can't tell what determines my "income". I can support 400 points of ships, but had 425, so nothing can get built. Since I can't "buy" anything, I ended up scrapping a probe. It clearly isn't population that helps, as I assimilated 4 worlds and still have 400 max. I'm guessing it's shipyards? Had to scrap ships I was building and now waiting for new more shipyards to complete.
It is population, but the Borg (now) have a population support multiplier of 0.3, with a minimum value of 400 (so that they can have a minimal fleet at game start). Once you reach ~1350 pop you'll see support increase.

There's been a lot of experimenting with the Borg (as a playable race), and it's really hard to make them viable.
With a population support multiplier of 1.0 they start fine but explode really fast and become unstoppable quite fast.
With the Maturation Chambers set to 1 per 100 pop they develop nicely but explode really fast.

New ideas are needed. Maybe this could help:
Iceman wrote:Maybe fleet support for the Borg should be independent of population?
It could increase with turn number (and be modified by AIMode), for example. It wouldn't get out of control as they expand, and the Borg losing colonies (including Unimatrix) would not make them "bankrupt" (forcing the scrapping of ships).
It would also help when you play with no minors, in larger galaxies.

An alternative (to turn number), or as a complement, we could use (accumulated) Research or Intelligence to increase pop support. Research is used for their victory condition, but Intel is not used for anything.

Another idea:
Iceman wrote:In order to prevent the Borg's growth from exploding after asssimilating a few colonies, maybe we should not auto-terraform assimilated systems?


2. this attached game crashes. Here's the error.txt:
Looks like more Orbital Battery stuff? I think this game his toast without some help!
Yep, it's exactly the same issue as in the other game. Will try to fix asap so you can continue.

Oh, one other thought. In my Rom game (other thread), I'm guessing the Borg never built the building that adds drones. That seems like what is preventing them from expanding. Just a thought!
Actually, Makus has the Maturation Chambers built, and its pop is increasing. Kaus Australis though, it was bombed to near extiction, and it doesn't even have pop to activate a single PF...
The Borg need to be more careful/smart with bombardment.
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Re: Playing as the Borg

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This might be too much of an overhaul, especially for AI control: What if the Borg had no shipyards except at Unimatrix. It would force them to rely on TH's to get around, so adding stealth/cloaking to those would be important. Majors would have to set up specialized ships/taskforces to hunt and destroy the network, and Borg would have to protect and manage their network. There would need to be some reward to ship build rate (increased docks over time?) to support growth of the collective based on assimilating systems. Perhaps TH constructors come out of manufacturing facilities automatically over time instead of requiring shipyards which would help manage the growth. Each ship loss or TH loss would be a blow, compensating for the strength of their ships. Probably too big a change, but fun to think about!

Another way to manage Borg from growing explosively might be to have the nanoprobes replenish at some rate over time instead of instantly, so ships cannot assimilate multiple planets on successive turns. Or make nanoprobes a resource that needs to be replenished at planets after using them. Nanoprobe levels could replenish at planets similar to garrisons (but faster) and get transferred to sphere/cube/diamond whenever one visits the planet. New facilities could improve the replenishment rate and max amount on-hand.

Combining TH network management with needing to replace nanoprobes makes the Borg really intriguing. Maybe UI Borg and human Borg would play differently to save on AI programming?

Ah well. One can imagine it!
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Re: Playing as the Borg

Post by Warp Core Breach »

It would also help when you play with no minors, in larger galaxies.
Interesting thought! :up:

THs are very vulnerable, though. and would need protection.
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Re: Playing as the Borg

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Warp Core Breach wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:21 pm This might be too much of an overhaul, especially for AI control: What if the Borg had no shipyards except at Unimatrix.
This is an interesting idea.
Just wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring your post, I just want to take the time to reply to the whole post.
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Re: Playing as the Borg

Post by Warp Core Breach »

No worries Iceman! Patches are more important!

(speaking of patches, my game is still crashing for the OB issue after installing today's patch - do I need to start a new game, or is this patch resolving something else?)

Playing as the Borg, I think the population support is set too low. I can't build any more ships and with 400 pts (2 cubes, 1 diamond, 3 probes and 2 TH), I can't expand further as I need to defend too much territory and cannot build any more ships. Did I mention that I cannot build any more ships? :cry: )
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Re: Playing as the Borg

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Warp Core Breach wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:48 pm (speaking of patches, my game is still crashing for the OB issue after installing today's patch - do I need to start a new game, or is this patch resolving something else?)
The patch should fix it for colonies that are subjugated after applying the patch.
This crash is probably in a colony that had an OB upgrade in the build queue, I'll see what I can do about it.

Playing as the Borg, I think the population support is set too low. I can't build any more ships and with 400 pts (2 cubes, 1 diamond, 3 probes and 2 TH), I can't expand further as I need to defend too much territory and cannot build any more ships. Did I mention that I cannot build any more ships? :cry: )
In the late game, 0.3 is more than enough for a bunch of Cubes.
Should we bring back the Borg's orbital batteries?
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Re: Playing as the Borg

Post by Iceman »

Ok, here's a savegame that doesn't crash, so you can finish that game.
Oh, the Klingons destroyed your Hub...
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SP Borg Medium Ring 105.zip
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Re: Playing as the Borg

Post by Warp Core Breach »

Thanks Iceman!
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