Playing as the Borg

[Iceman]

I lowered the cost of the shipyard to 5000, which should revert it to previous build times.


I've been meaning to make some changes to Borg buildings for some time, maybe itis now that time. I'm not happy with some of the buildings/bonuses.

Central Alcove: +100% Ground Combat
Although it kind of makes sense that the homesystem is better protected, you can actually turn this building off while it is not needed (most of the game?), which is kind of lame. It should probably have a permanently needed (important) bonus.
What I have in mind is, when I add a new bonus for Fleet Support, the CA would have that bonus (instead of the currently harcoded minimum support).
Another option would be to make it the +Shipbuilding building (instead of the Unicomplex), kind of mimicking the empires - the homesystem would be the fleetyard with enhanced output, and other systems would only have shipyards (maybe with a slightly increased output).

Hive Link:
Should we split this one into 2 separate buildings, each with one of the bonuses

Unicomplex:
As per above, drop the +Shipbuilding bonus and either make it generate one of the resources of the Hive link, or the +ScanRange ability of the Subspace Analyser (which we would get rid of?).


I'm also not sure about the Processing Node. The idea was to have the Borg capture ships during combat, which would then be scrapped at the PN to gain resources. It might be too gimmicky though. The 50 energy cost also makes it one of those buildings that you will only activate when needed (might as well have no energy cost?).

[Iceman]

This should make build times more in line with what we had previously.
I didn't touch the Resonance Chamber though.

It requires starting a new game.
Unzip and place it in the \Resources\Data folder, overwriting the file there.

Also uploaded it to BitBucket.

[the6the]

I lowered the cost of the shipyard to 5000, which should revert it to previous build times.

Cool! Will be testing this asap.

I've been meaning to make some changes to Borg buildings for some time, maybe itis now that time. I'm not happy with some of the buildings/bonuses.

Central Alcove: +100% Ground Combat
Although it kind of makes sense that the homesystem is better protected, you can actually turn this building off while it is not needed (most of the game?), which is kind of lame. It should probably have a permanently needed (important) bonus.
What I have in mind is, when I add a new bonus for Fleet Support, the CA would have that bonus (instead of the currently harcoded minimum support).

Agreed, now it serves next to no purpose for most of the game.
The fleet support is the option I'd go for!
However, I would like to see the fleetyard in the homesystem though!
Could it do both?
I'd absolutely love that!

Another option would be to make it the +Shipbuilding building (instead of the Unicomplex), kind of mimicking the empires - the homesystem would be the fleetyard with enhanced output, and other systems would only have shipyards (maybe with a slightly increased output).

Could other shipyards get the production bonus other empires get, or something similar? (when production is idle in system, % of production goes to shipyard) It wouldn't have to be an as high a % as the other empires, but I feel there should be some reward/purpose of owning a 600-pop system, especially now that the PF for research are so expensive, and intel serves basically no purpose for the Borg in the later game (as it stands now anyway).

Hive Link:
Should we split this one into 2 separate buildings, each with one of the bonuses

I guess we could do. But what exactly do we gain from this though? Just another building to build, so that the build list in assimilated colonies is longer?

Unicomplex:
As per above, drop the +Shipbuilding bonus and either make it generate one of the resources of the Hive link, or the +ScanRange ability of the Subspace Analyser (which we would get rid of?).

Could this building give the % bonus from idle production instead of the flat %?
I kind of like the subspace analyzer

I'm also not sure about the Processing Node. The idea was to have the Borg capture ships during combat, which would then be scrapped at the PN to gain resources. It might be too gimmicky though. The 50 energy cost also makes it one of those buildings that you will only activate when needed (might as well have no energy cost?).

OOOOH! can we please get to capture enemy ships! OMG that would be awesome! Just imagine a fleet of Borg cloaked Warbirds, Vor'chas.. my imagination is going wild! Gimmicky? Not in my book.
As for the PN, I haven't yet found a use for it in any of my games.
If we were in fact be able to capture enemy vessels, it could very useful - You see, Early Borg games are all similar in one way: Lack of Duranium. This isn't a bad thing, mind you, because otherwise, the Borg would get too strong too quickly. The Borg are forced to build a Tritanium Forge as the first building in most colonies, especially early game, but this continues well into mid game. Capturing ships and getting duranium from them via the PN could change this..
However, perhaps the captured ships need to be towed by a cube (each) to the nearest PN? - this would possibly give the empires some breathing time between Borg attacks. Plus, by going back and forth with captured ships, the Borg will finally start using some of that deuterium stockpile that's been steadily rising.
Also, captured ships could self destruct after a finite amount of time (7 turns?) if they're not brought into a PN by then - to add urgency, and to prevent abuse. It would be even more cool if there was a random time of self destruction! Say, at any time between turn 4 and turn 10. Perhaps it could even damage the cube's hull, warranting repairs..

That's my two cents anyway.. anyone else have any ideas?

[Iceman]

New ideas.

Central Alcove: +100% Ground Combat
Although it kind of makes sense that the homesystem is better protected, you can actually turn this building off while it is not needed (most of the game?), which is kind of lame. It should probably have a permanently needed (important) bonus.

Agreed, now it serves next to no purpose for most of the game.

I'm thinking of giving it a +100 Food bonus; it'll free up 2 pop blocks from food to another output type.
And keeping the +100% Ground Combat bonus.

Another option would be to make it the +Shipbuilding building (instead of the Unicomplex), kind of mimicking the empires - the homesystem would be the fleetyard with enhanced output, and other systems would only have shipyards (maybe with a slightly increased output).

Could other shipyards get the production bonus other empires get, or something similar? (when production is idle in system, % of production goes to shipyard) It wouldn't have to be an as high a % as the other empires, but I feel there should be some reward/purpose of owning a 600-pop system, especially now that the PF for research are so expensive, and intel serves basically no purpose for the Borg in the later game (as it stands now anyway).

I'm thinking of giving the +Shipbuilding bonus to the Processing Node, and make it a 1 per 100 Pop building (like the Maturation Chambers); so, the larger the system, the higher the shipbuilding output it can have.
Maybe it would be interesting to have the Borg have (more of) this kind of development type, mutliple instances of a building instead of upgrades. It would be somewhat different.
OR, the industry bonus is also an option, yes - that would give their Industry a permanent use (in shipyard systems ofc).

About the Processing Node, or more precisely the +PercentScrapping bonus, I'm thinking of scrapping it (the bonus). It's kind of silly, and prone to micromanagement, I think.
Does anyone actually use this (bonus) I'm really interested to know.
I was thinking of hardcoding its current behavior, which since the last patch is, you get:
- sqrt of build cost in credits for Buildings and Production Facilities
- half the costs of dilithium and duranium for Ships (and I think Stations, can't recall exactly); full costs if in a system with the Surplus Depot (+100% Scrapping) [the hardcoded version would return full costs in systems with an active shipyard, period]

I'm trying to find a way to have Intel have an impact on XP gained in battles, and/or in determining which/if ships get assimilated in battle.

[Iceman]

Hive Link:
Should we split this one into 2 separate buildings, each with one of the bonuses

I guess we could do. But what exactly do we gain from this though? Just another building to build, so that the build list in assimilated colonies is longer?

The energy cost and the build cost would be split, making it easier and faster to build each one.
Currently, the systems doesn't need to have those resources available, it can be built in any system. Not sure if we should add the restrictions In that case, splitting it would be best.

But yes, we can keep it simple; maybe move these bonuses to the Unicomplex (if the +Shipbuilding bonus is moved to the Processing Node(s) as per above), and have the Hive Link get the Fleet Support bonus mentioned earlier (making it OnePerEmpire, HomeSystem). Maybe it makes more sense with the names of the Buildings

I'm also not sure about the Processing Node. The idea was to have the Borg capture ships during combat, which would then be scrapped at the PN to gain resources. It might be too gimmicky though. The 50 energy cost also makes it one of those buildings that you will only activate when needed (might as well have no energy cost?).

OOOOH! can we please get to capture enemy ships! OMG that would be awesome! Just imagine a fleet of Borg cloaked Warbirds, Vor'chas.. my imagination is going wild! Gimmicky? Not in my book.

Well, akido already wrote the code for it We just need to get it to the dev version.
BUT, since assimilated ships will cost maintenance, it might get you in trouble if it exceeds pop support. So we might need to limit the ability to assimilate ships to when you have free support, and to the amount of free support.
This is a cool feature, but one that can have nasty effects if not properly implemented.

[the6the]

New ideas.

I'm thinking of giving it a +100 Food bonus; it'll free up 2 pop blocks from food to another output type.
And keeping the +100% Ground Combat bonus.

I'm thinking of giving the +Shipbuilding bonus to the Processing Node, and make it a 1 per 100 Pop building (like the Maturation Chambers); so, the larger the system, the higher the shipbuilding output it can have.
Maybe it would be interesting to have the Borg have (more of) this kind of development type, mutliple instances of a building instead of upgrades. It would be somewhat different.

This is kinda cool. Just, in this case there will be even more need for energy PFs. The Borg are VERY power hungry as it is.

OR, the industry bonus is also an option, yes - that would give their Industry a permanent use (in shipyard systems ofc).

I think this would be the better option. It gives the player a reason to build construction PFs. Up until now, most of my large systems had their pop left idle, as there was nothing of value to build. In most systems, even the extremely large ones, the number of construction PF's rarely go over 8. If this was implemented, I would definitely build like 20-30 of them in the largest systems. It would also make it more rewarding to find large systems.


The processing unit bonus.. I've played several games. I only used it a couple of times, more to test the effect rather than actually needing it. I really see no need for this bonus, especially since the Borg have no use for credits. And if the hardcoded version would have a 100% return in any system with an active shipyard..
The hardcoded version would be better IMO.

I'm trying to find a way to have Intel have an impact on XP gained in battles, and/or in determining which/if ships get assimilated in battle.

This is awesome!
If your looking for ideas, here's one:
-Internal Security retains regular function.
-Espionage determines the types of ships that can potentially be assimilated (maybe by build cost value?), + determines the amount of XP gained in battle by Borg vessels.
-Sabotage determines the chance of a successful assimilation of a certain ship (type governed by espionage), + any surplus over 100% would carry on to next assimilation target.
Of course, in this case, neither espionage or sabotage could have accumulating values. Rather, their value would be of a single turn (the last turn).

Well, akido already wrote the code for it We just need to get it to the dev version.
BUT, since assimilated ships will cost maintenance, it might get you in trouble if it exceeds pop support. So we might need to limit the ability to assimilate ships to when you have free support, and to the amount of free support.
This is a cool feature, but one that can have nasty effects if not properly implemented.

Yep, definitely need to make it only possible when there's a surplus in FS.
Otherwise, well it's just like building a ship more than you should have

[Iceman]

I'm thinking of giving the +Shipbuilding bonus to the Processing Node, and make it a 1 per 100 Pop building (like the Maturation Chambers); so, the larger the system, the higher the shipbuilding output it can have.
Maybe it would be interesting to have the Borg have (more of) this kind of development type, mutliple instances of a building instead of upgrades. It would be somewhat different.

This is kinda cool. Just, in this case there will be even more need for energy PFs. The Borg are VERY power hungry as it is.

The energy cost for each would be 25, so that it would only require more energy for larger systems (the homesystem would remain unchanged).

OR, the industry bonus is also an option, yes - that would give their Industry a permanent use (in shipyard systems ofc).

I think this would be the better option. It gives the player a reason to build construction PFs. Up until now, most of my large systems had their pop left idle, as there was nothing of value to build. In most systems, even the extremely large ones, the number of construction PF's rarely go over 8. If this was implemented, I would definitely build like 20-30 of them in the largest systems. It would also make it more rewarding to find large systems.

Ok, let's give this a try.

I'm trying to find a way to have Intel have an impact on XP gained in battles, and/or in determining which/if ships get assimilated in battle.

This is awesome!
If your looking for ideas, here's one:
-Internal Security retains regular function.
-Espionage determines the types of ships that can potentially be assimilated (maybe by build cost value?), + determines the amount of XP gained in battle by Borg vessels.
-Sabotage determines the chance of a successful assimilation of a certain ship (type governed by espionage), + any surplus over 100% would carry on to next assimilation target.
Of course, in this case, neither espionage or sabotage could have accumulating values. Rather, their value would be of a single turn (the last turn).

Sounds good.

[the6the]

The energy cost for each would be 25, so that it would only require more energy for larger systems (the homesystem would remain unchanged).

Oh. as low as that? We should give both options a try then!

Sounds good.

[Iceman]

The energy cost for each would be 25, so that it would only require more energy for larger systems (the homesystem would remain unchanged).

Oh. as low as that? We should give both options a try then!

But the bonus (for each) would also be lower (~half) of course!!



I need to make sure that the industry boost is not OP, might need a different formula for the Borg (since their industry is rather high).

[Iceman]

OR, the industry bonus is also an option, yes - that would give their Industry a permanent use (in shipyard systems ofc).

I think this would be the better option. It gives the player a reason to build construction PFs. Up until now, most of my large systems had their pop left idle, as there was nothing of value to build. In most systems, even the extremely large ones, the number of construction PF's rarely go over 8. If this was implemented, I would definitely build like 20-30 of them in the largest systems. It would also make it more rewarding to find large systems.

Ok, implemented this.
I'll need to make some adjustments to the data files, and it should be ready for testing.

[Iceman]

Changes in the new patch, related to the Borg:

Central Alcove: kept the Ground Combat bonus but removed the energy cost (the bonus can still be changed).

The Borg now also get the industry bonus to shipbuilding when build queue is empty (but with no other restrictions); the bonus of the Unicomplex was changed from Shipbuilding to (new) Fleet Support [this bonus does not affect the *minimum* support value, only the "regular" support value].

Maturation Chambers now have a (new) Population Growth bonus instead of the Garrison Training bonus, to avoid confusion.

I also added a warning dialog when you try to build ships and your support is <= 0.

[geordie]

+FleetSupport (replaced the +Shipbuilding bonus of the Unicomplex)

What is a role of the Species Database in the Borg game now?

EDIT: I tried some turns in a new Borg game and I got no Fleet Support bonus after constructing the Unicomplex

[Iceman]

+FleetSupport (replaced the +Shipbuilding bonus of the Unicomplex)

What is a role of the Species Database in the Borg game now?

Same as before.

EDIT: I tried some turns in a new Borg game and I got no Fleet Support bonus after constructing the Unicomplex

Fleet Support [this bonus does not affect the *minimum* support value, only the "regular" support value].

You should see the effect later in the game.

I considered implementing it in a different way, having it in a OnePerEmpire building and making it the base value [400] for minimum support (replacing/removing the harcoded value). Not sure about it though.

[geordie]

So later in the game the net effect would be one cube per system. Might be too much....

[Iceman]

I was thinking of restricting it to systems with Dilithium, or some other restriction. I guess it would be nice if it would only be buildable in large systems, but that might not be easy to do in a way that is understandable to the player.

The way this is implemented right now is not very intuitive / understandable for the human player, I know - I mean the whole minimum value vs current value thingie. It's a WiP, I'm still trying to make it better / more interesting.
Suggestions to improve all of this are welcome.