Supremacy new release

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

redhat1968 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:03 pm I have a slightly edited Conformation2.wav file to go into the following folder
Star Trek Supremacy\Resources\SoundFX\General\Borg
It sounds like the previous version of the file, the one in the 7feb patch?
There was an update to some of those files in 12feb.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by redhat1968 »

Iceman,

I finally figured out the Planetary Assault process. BOTF always seemed like random chance. In Supremacy I was missing the X 0.25 multiplier to the attacking Combat Strength. This means you basically need 4 times the Transports to ensure victory so no problem there. I also was thinking you needed to wear down the garrison first with Attack and Strike Cruisers before sending in the Transports, but this just kills off the population and structures instead.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I tested Klingon Combat Strength with and without the Hall of Warriors and Battle Stations activated in Qo'nos. For testing purposes I am attacking the Krios in Sector (24,32) with 3 Transports on Turn 31. Regardless of whether the structures are activated or not, the Klingon Combat Ability is 144 X 3 = 432 with a success Ratio of 0.9. I have zipped a save file from Turn 30.

Is it possible that the structures are not having an effect on the calculation?

Also, I thought I remembered in BOTF you could set Klingon Transports, Colony and Construction ships to Engage. Did you decide not to do this in Supremacy?
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Re: Supremacy new release

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redhat1968 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:28 pm BOTF always seemed like random chance.
IIRC there was a random factor in calculating success in BotF, yes.

This means you basically need 4 times the Transports to ensure victory so no problem there.
Depends on a few things, but I was aiming for a somewhat "tradicional" ~3:1 advantage on assaulting fortresses. :wink:

I also was thinking you needed to wear down the garrison first with Attack and Strike Cruisers before sending in the Transports, but this just kills off the population and structures instead.
Yes. If you have a Command ship in your attacking fleet, you can select the bombardment strategy - Maximum Accuracy is more effective against Garrison, but overall deals less damage. If you don't, you'll use Maximum Damage by default.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I tested Klingon Combat Strength with and without the Hall of Warriors and Battle Stations activated in Qo'nos. For testing purposes I am attacking the Krios in Sector (24,32) with 3 Transports on Turn 31. Regardless of whether the structures are activated or not, the Klingon Combat Ability is 144 X 3 = 432 with a success Ratio of 0.9. I have zipped a save file from Turn 30.

Is it possible that the structures are not having an effect on the calculation?
Yes, like I said in the other post, Buildings do not affect the invader's combat strength:

The combat strength formula for each side's troops is very similar to BotF, except for the bonuses from Buildings; in Supremacy, Ground Combat is local instead of global (works as Ground Defense in BotF basically) and so it is only factored for the defender, and Ground Defense only protects the Garrison against orbital bombardment and so has no effect in this part of combat

Also, I thought I remembered in BOTF you could set Klingon Transports, Colony and Construction ships to Engage. Did you decide not to do this in Supremacy?
Yes, their weapons are purely defensive weapons (being non-combat ships) - they'll only fire when they're fired upon.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Please correct me if I am wrong, but I tested Klingon Combat Strength with and without the Hall of Warriors and Battle Stations activated in Qo'nos. For testing purposes I am attacking the Krios in Sector (24,32) with 3 Transports on Turn 31. Regardless of whether the structures are activated or not, the Klingon Combat Ability is 144 X 3 = 432 with a success Ratio of 0.9. I have zipped a save file from Turn 30.

Is it possible that the structures are not having an effect on the calculation?
I think this might deserve an explanation.
In my view, it doesn't make any sense at all that your troops on the other side of the Empire will have more combat strength just because a building is *activated*. Whether it's the Hall of Warriors or not. If I deactivate it, then immediately my troops have their combat strength decreased?! Hmm.
It seems to make more sense to have the Hall of Warriors provide additional incentive (and fanatical defense troops of its own) only to the system where it is located (and when activated).
Also, when you would start accumulating a few GroundCombat bonuses (if they were global like in BotF), it would get a bit silly. I'm not sure we want some systems to fall to a couple of TTs..
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Iceman,
I completely understand. Thanks for the extra patience you have given me. I always try to search the forums first, but I don't always catch it. I don't think I understood the difference between Ground Combat and Ground Defense. I really like the work everyone put into the updated Planetary Assault screen. I also realized I had downloaded the latest patch, but that I had not installed it in the Supremacy folder. I am all updated now.

On a separate note, I have played the Klingons twice now, once in the previous update, and now once in the new update. 4 times now, I have got a Domestic Terrorism event. The first game it was twice by turn 80 and the second game it was twice by turn 67. Each time it destroys 6 Construction Halls except for the last because I only had 5 to begin with. It is my understanding that Empire Sabotage is not implemented yet, regardless I have not met any Empires. No complaints, it may be that this seems reasonable to everyone, but I thought it strange the it was the exact same event...
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Re: Supremacy new release

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redhat1968 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:06 pm Thanks for the extra patience you have given me. I always try to search the forums first, but I don't always catch it.
:up: No problem at all, on the contrary! It's really cool to be discussing the game mechanics, and what's behind them - it's a good way of seeing if/where the game can be improved.

I don't think I understood the difference between Ground Combat and Ground Defense.
Supremacy's GC is BotF's GD - meaning it is only applied to the defending troops. So the Hall of Warriors only applies to Qo'noS when it is being invaded by another civ, in that defending Klingon troops get +50% (or is it +100%?) more firepower if it is active. When Klingon troops are invading another civ's colony, they get no bonus from HoW.
Supremacy's GD (Bunker Network, and a couple minor races' underground structures) only protects the colony's Garrison from orbital bombardment, and nothing else - it makes them tougher to kil from orbit but not in actual ground combat (this is what I mentioned could be changed, it also providing "hit point" bonuses to the defender's troops in ground battles).

I really like the work everyone put into the updated Planetary Assault screen.
Yea, it's really nice. We still need to implement a way to liberate colonies (probably by having the Land Troops button open a new menu that allows Liberate and Subjugate actions), and to have it pick the theme for the civ you're playing (instead of the Fed theme).

On a separate note, I have played the Klingons twice now, once in the previous update, and now once in the new update. 4 times now, I have got a Domestic Terrorism event. The first game it was twice by turn 80 and the second game it was twice by turn 67. Each time it destroys 6 Construction Halls except for the last because I only had 5 to begin with. It is my understanding that Empire Sabotage is not implemented yet, regardless I have not met any Empires. No complaints, it may be that this seems reasonable to everyone, but I thought it strange the it was the exact same event...
Terrorism events will only start happening 50 turns after the colony has been founded. If you do not start generating Intelligence in that colony at that point, then the events start triggering every few turns (this can be modded in the Data folder, ScriptedEvents.xaml file). The lower you Intel output vs the colony's population, the harder the effects; 6 structures, you probably had no Intel being generated and the PFs were of low TL?
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by redhat1968 »

Iceman,
Thanks. So Intel generation does matter at this point. Yes I was not allocating enough to Internal Security. Time to start over. At the rate I was going, all Qo'nos was building were Construction Halls and nothing else.

By the way, you written English is very good. I would have never guessed you were from Portugal until you told me. My family and I vacationed there when I was 16. We found the people some of the friendliest people in Europe and your country is very beautiful.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Iceman wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:34 pmAlso, when you would start accumulating a few GroundCombat bonuses (if they were global like in BotF), it would get a bit silly. I'm not sure we want some systems to fall to a couple of TTs..
You already made some reasonable tweaks to empire-wide bonuses (their on/off switch logic always will remain strange) and alterations to the base function of other buildings.

Have you also considered this old BotF related request by Callahan: (the same guy later made an impressive BotF clone)
Callahan wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:11 amUse up all involved transports on invasion.
I do not like the current way of being overrun by the enemy as he only has to build 1 new TRN after capturing even a strong system.
Using em up all would make it more difficult to decide on how many to be used, and would slow down any war as one will have to build more TRNs in order to proceed.
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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redhat1968 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:48 pm Iceman,
Thanks. So Intel generation does matter at this point. Yes I was not allocating enough to Internal Security. Time to start over. At the rate I was going, all Qo'nos was building were Construction Halls and nothing else.
Well, yes, at this point intel is only useful for protecting against those 2 random events (Commercial Terrorism and Domestic Terrorism); this is probably just temporary until Intel is implemented properly, I made it this way to "absorb" some pop from research and sort of artificially curb the research spike as you get to the mid game. It's not a very good mechanic as it is not clearly shown anywhere (or very intuitive) how much you have to generate to counter terrorism actions, or when they may start happening.

By the way, you written English is very good. I would have never guessed you were from Portugal until you told me. My family and I vacationed there when I was 16. We found the people some of the friendliest people in Europe and your country is very beautiful.
Thanks! Yes, best country in the world :cool: Nice weather, good food - and wine if you're into it, nice white sand beaches, and yes friendly people and great landscapes. But I guess that's what everyone else says too :wink:
Glad you enjoyed it, you should come back when the pandemic allows it!
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:01 pm
Iceman wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:34 pmAlso, when you would start accumulating a few GroundCombat bonuses (if they were global like in BotF), it would get a bit silly. I'm not sure we want some systems to fall to a couple of TTs..
You already made some reasonable tweaks to empire-wide bonuses (their on/off switch logic always will remain strange) and alterations to the base function of other buildings.

Have you also considered this old BotF related request by Callahan: (the same guy later made an impressive BotF clone)
Callahan wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:11 amUse up all involved transports on invasion.
I do not like the current way of being overrun by the enemy as he only has to build 1 new TRN after capturing even a strong system.
Using em up all would make it more difficult to decide on how many to be used, and would slow down any war as one will have to build more TRNs in order to proceed.
Hehe, yes. I need to find the time to continue looking into those empire-wide mods, particularly the research ones.

Callahan, I remember him! I tested his game back in the day. Interesting game, I particularly liked one of the diplomacy related stats of races, can't recall its name - I'll have to check my notes (yes, I still have those notes in my archive). There were a few interesting concepts in that game.

That request, it kind of already does that. All TTs that deploy troops are used up and destroyed, except if that would make the colony's new garrison exceed its max value - in that case, only the number of TTs required to max out the garrison are destroyed, the rest are left in orbit (it wouldn't make sense to have those colonies have a gazillion troops when other colonies would be limited to max).
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Iceman wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:32 pm
Iceman wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:28 pm
@the6the, is it my impression or is the AlienCultureFound sound, especially in rather low volume levels, a little lower than the rest?
I uploaded a new version of AienCultureFound a while ago, have you seen the new version? It should be in ine with the rest of the sounds. Lemme know if it still stands out as being too quiet.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Yes, the new version was included in the 12feb patch.
It's probably just me but it seems that in game (and only in game) the other sounds are a bit louder. Might be some specific situation or something.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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redhat1968 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:06 pm On a separate note, I have played the Klingons twice now, once in the previous update, and now once in the new update. 4 times now, I have got a Domestic Terrorism event. The first game it was twice by turn 80 and the second game it was twice by turn 67. Each time it destroys 6 Construction Halls except for the last because I only had 5 to begin with. It is my understanding that Empire Sabotage is not implemented yet, regardless I have not met any Empires. No complaints, it may be that this seems reasonable to everyone, but I thought it strange the it was the exact same event...
In those 4 times, was it *only* the Construction Halls that got destroyed? No other facility type? Were there other facility types in the colony(ies)?
For each facility that is destroyed, its type is (should be) randomized. (Food facilities are never targeted though)

If only the CHs were targeted, either the RNG gods have a grudge against you or there's something's fishy with the randomizer :wink:
If the latter, it needs to be fixed. If not, do you have a goat ready to be sacr... offered to appease their wrath? :twisted:
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by redhat1968 »

Iceman,
The domestic sabotage occurring is hitting only the Construction Halls while playing the Klingons. It has also happened in my new updated game once, but that was because I had 1 planet that was not fully secured. Earlier, I had 1 commercial terrorism event, but that was only for a few credits, once again my fault.

Are we planning on a different model for the Construction II and III ships beside an upgrade to the Chen Qach. The image and description are missing. I can work on that if no one else has started...
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Re: Supremacy new release

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redhat1968 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:48 pm Iceman,
The domestic sabotage occurring is hitting only the Construction Halls while playing the Klingons. It has also happened in my new updated game once, but that was because I had 1 planet that was not fully secured. Earlier, I had 1 commercial terrorism event, but that was only for a few credits, once again my fault.
:???: Thx, I'll try to find the issue with the current code...
BTW, I think I may have forgotten to mention this earlier, but the security level in the colony also depends on the current morale value in that colony (plus Computers tech, unemployment, current intel production, etc).

Are we planning on a different model for the Construction II and III ships beside an upgrade to the Chen Qach. The image and description are missing. I can work on that if no one else has started...
Yes, we need a bunch of new models, and descriptions to go with them:

DOM_SCIENCE_SHIP_III
CARD_ , KLING_ , ROM_ CONSTRUCTION_SHIP_II
CARD_ , DOM_ , FED_ , KLING_ , ROM_ CONSTRUCTION_SHIP_III
DOM_ , KLING_COLONY_SHIP_III

They're all yours!
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