Supremacy new release

Supremacy; support/discussion/questions

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

Hebrewhammer wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:30 am I unfortunately do not have an older save, however there is a Jem'hadar colony controlled by the Cardasians in the same area as the others (Tautine). If you break the alliance and declare war then you could test it on that system,
Ok, I'll check that out.

Do you remember if you got the colony destroyed sitrep when bombarding those colonies (that now have zero pop)?

My issue is not with planetary assaults but with fleet vs fleet combat, it seemed like that cloak was not allowing me first strike in the opening round.
It's explained in the thread I linked to. Decloaking happens before space combat, to allow for surprise defensive moves.
Only the fleets with the Assault System order get decloaked. If you're expecting defense fleets in the system, you should decloak the turn before arriving.

If you find this to not be a good change, please post in that thread. There were no contrary opinions, so it was implemented.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Hebrewhammer wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:30 am I unfortunately do not have an older save, however there is a Jem'hadar colony controlled by the Cardasians in the same area as the others (Tautine). If you break the alliance and declare war then you could test it on that system,
Glassed Tautine and it worked as it should. The colony was totally destroyed, no inhabitants remained.
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Hebrewhammer
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Hebrewhammer »

Glassed Tautine and it worked as it should. The colony was totally destroyed, no inhabitants remained.
Interesting, so the pop went to zero and the system was then tagged as uninhabited so you could colonize it? If so I'm not sure what happened to the Fed controlled Jem'hadar for me.
My issue is not with planetary assaults but with fleet vs fleet combat, it seemed like that cloak was not allowing me first strike in the opening round.

It's explained in the thread I linked to. Decloaking happens before space combat, to allow for surprise defensive moves.
Only the fleets with the Assault System order get decloaked. If you're expecting defense fleets in the system, you should decloak the turn before arriving.

If you find this to not be a good change, please post in that thread. There were no contrary opinions, so it was implemented.
I read through the thread and understood it to be that the cloaked fleet would decloak before a system assault or shipyard attack to give the defender a chance. What I had or thought I had an issue with was not from any fleet being ordered to assault a planet or shipyard, but in fact just engaging a hostile enemy fleet in the same system. No planetary assault ordered just ship on ship combat which from the post should mean that my fleet (if cloaked) gets the opening round to attack without the enemy able to retaliate. I will check again with the older save and see if it happens or I am just imagining it.
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Hebrewhammer
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Hebrewhammer »

Ok just loaded a later save of the same campaign, I took 10 cloaked cruiser IV's from Iyaara to the Fed's Zalda. I purposefully sent a weaker fleet so the AI would fight instead of retreat, I knew I would lose but what I thought would happen did.

The very turn that my fleet moved into the system the ship to ship combat window appeared, please note I only moved my fleet to the system without giving it an assault system or attack shipyard order. My fleet is shown cloaked in the combat windows for the starting turn, however when I choose to engage the Fed fleet the very next turn shows 8 of my ships destroyed and the remaining 2 damaged.

This bug makes cloaked fleets worthless in combat and forces me to just run my fleets uncloaked so they can have full shields at the start of the engagement. If there is something I am still missing about how a cloaked fleet works please let me know what I am missing. I am including the save so you can give it a test and see if you have the same issue as I did, please note that these issues were on an older build of the game.

SP Klingons Huge Irregular 1190.zip
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Hebrewhammer wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:18 pm Interesting, so the pop went to zero and the system was then tagged as uninhabited so you could colonize it? If so I'm not sure what happened to the Fed controlled Jem'hadar for me.
Yes. I'm not sure either.
I'll have to check the code, but I'm not sure if this:
Hebrewhammer wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 9:02 pm My only recourse was to wait many many turns later until I saw the population increase past zero so I could send a single troop transport and finally take the system.
is even possible. I mean, zero pop systems growing population (without growth buildings, which I'm assuming there were none in the colony since it was wiped clean). Population count is a whole number, there are no fractions involved.

Your t1140 savegame was helpful in finding and fixing a crash [another curious thing, I'm not sure how you (and the AI) managed to bombard those J'H colonies without the game crashing... :???: ] and a smallish tweak. :up:

My issue is not with planetary assaults but with fleet vs fleet combat, it seemed like that cloak was not allowing me first strike in the opening round.
You do have first strike in the 1st round, I checked. That's what allowed you to destroy a few Fed ships.



Hebrewhammer wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:34 pm My fleet is shown cloaked in the combat windows for the starting turn, however when I choose to engage the Fed fleet the very next turn shows 8 of my ships destroyed and the remaining 2 damaged.
I'll have to check the code, but now that I think about it, this is probably related to a change I made [trying to look smart :wink: ] where cloaked ships might actually be targeted right after breaking cloak (ie, firing their weapons), depending on the opponent's scan strength vs your cloak strength. IIRC they fire with a ToHit penalty, depending on the difference between the 2 values.

This bug makes cloaked fleets worthless in combat and forces me to just run my fleets uncloaked so they can have full shields at the start of the engagement.
They're not exactly worthless. Like you mentioned, this test was made with a (numerically) inferior fleet. And the Fed ships are *really* tough. That partly explains the low casualty count on the Fed side. One other issue that also contributed to the outcome was that when your ships were fired upon they had zero shields, as opposed to 50% that they get on decloak - they should have decloaked before being targeted... thanks for the catch! :up:

So, should I remove all this detection thing :?: No firing back (with a penalty) on the 1st round of combat :?:
Or just fix the moment the shields are set to 50% on decloak :?:

What do you guys think?
Obviously, we want cloak not to be OP, but also not UP.

Thanks for the savegame, the battle report will be helpful for some tweaks! :up:
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by toffeeblue »

Hello, just downloading the latest patch.

Will input my latest maps and/or give it a try.

Looking forward to seeing the combat engine deployed. :borg:
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

Hey toffeeblue!
I'll probably release a new patch soon-ish. Need to fix cloak first.
I can release your map with the build, if you wish, to have people test it.

We really need that Borg smiley.. hmm, emoticon. Or whatever they're called these days.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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New patch.

Fixed crash in the map editor.
Fixed cloaked ships in combat.
Fixed crash in system assaults.
Some more tweaks and improvements.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by _FED_ »

Nice to see all the progress! :smile:
Last edited by _FED_ on Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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_FED_ wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:12 pm Nice to see all the progress! :smile:
Glad to see you posting here :wink:

How about adding a rare space phaenoma (like 0-2x per map) reducing scan range of an entire region to near 0? Like 7x7 sectors/tiles where even scout ships can see only there tile? To have a region to flee / hide fleets from attack and to surprise attack other planets by moving most likly undetected thought it.
Like a Magnetar. It´s a neutron star, like the pulsar but more extreme. It also has very rare starquakes (say 10% chance in 100 turns) where intense gamma ray bursts effect planets over light years (and ships in case of the game?)
Pulsars do reduce scan range in an area. Not that large though. 7x7 would have to be on a Huge galaxy, otherwise it would have too large of an effect I think.
At some point I made Quasars do something like that (deny scanners), but only on their sector. Only science ships and science stations would be immune to this effect. I think I disabled that though, as it didn't have much of an impact. Maybe increasing their range would make them more interesting...

One of the yet to be implemented random events is the Gamma Ray Burst, maybe we could use the magnetar idea as an event occuring on a neutron star sector - will have to check if the code supports events on non-colony sectors.
Maybe it could kill some crew of ships in its area of effect... it's one of the things in my TODO list, a stellar object that kills crew.

Also, how about a map, smaller then tiny, small enought so that scrolling is not nessecary and very fast games can be played on it?
If we scale the map sizes up, we could use Tiny for such a map :wink: (by not scaling it up but down, of course).
And you can use the wondeful map editor that Misfire created, to make such a map - and play it MP with other players. :wink: Some tournaments maybe?
edit: uh, actually no, not yet. Right now the editor can only be used to make maps with the default sizes. But eventually it will allow setting whatever size you want.


BTW: The concept of science ships gathering science data by scaning space phaenomena is a very cool feature :cool:

Does an more advanced science ship, say when starting in advanced, gather more data then an old science ship in the early age of the same object due to better sensors?
Yeah, very cool. And yes, more advanced ships collect more data. It's related to their science ability stat.
You can only collect data once per sector with a given science ship "tier"; that'll set your survey level of that sector to the ship's science ability. When you get a more advanced design, you can then survey that sector again, collecting more data. And so on. As long as the current science ship has a higher science ability than the sector's current survey level, you can survey it again. So you can generally survey each stellar phenomena sector 3 times (assuming 3 tiers of ships) - or more, if you get one of those minor civs with a science ship to join your empire (the Vulcans are great for that).
Notice that different sectors with the same type of phenomena can be surveyed independently - that is, you can survey all nebulae in the galaxy, but only once each (per ship tier).

Then there's science stations. If you build one on a stellar phenomena sector, you cannot survey it with science ships anymore, but you will get some research points every turn.

The collected data/RPs are added to a tech field that depends on the type of phenomena in the sector.


Thanks for the suggestions! :up: Keep them coming, and stay tuned to this channel, let's see if some of this makes it into the game.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by _FED_ »

How to transfer ressources of one of mine colonies to another?
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Re: Supremacy new release

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_FED_ wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:52 am How to transfer ressources of one of mine colonies to another?
If you mean system resources (dilithium, deuterium, duranium), resource pools are global (not local), which means they're available in any/all your colonies.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Hebrewhammer »

I am currently running a couple campaigns and my klingon one is crashing at the end of the turn. I am including the game save and error log.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Found the issue, thanks! Will fix asap.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by _FED_ »

Iceman wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:31 pm
_FED_ wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:52 am How to transfer ressources of one of mine colonies to another?
If you mean system resources (dilithium, deuterium, duranium), resource pools are global (not local), which means they're available in any/all your colonies.
Ok, I see. Realized the ships did not start buildinig because they need 19 dilithium at the beginning of building, and i had 18+0 in the global pool.
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