Supremacy new release

Supremacy; support/discussion/questions

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geordie
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

But I had the Trade Hub listed as a research achievement and now I have no trade routs available for the Omarion Nebula.
Anyway it is a strange game, bacause in 90 turns I have not met any minor civilization (I put 'some' as starting parameter).
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

Yes, Omarion does not have any TRs. It was kind of weird it having... In fact, the Dominion doesn't generate any TRs now. They have to rely on minor races to get them.
This is part of the ongoing process of moving the Dominion away from the Ferengi archetype, as discussed here.

The Trade Hub is still a OnePerEmpire building though, I wasn't sure if I should remove that and allow one in each member system.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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geordie wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:59 pm Anyway it is a strange game, bacause in 90 turns I have not met any minor civilization (I put 'some' as starting parameter).
You are playing a Huge galaxy, correct?
There are only 13 minor races that have the Gamma Quadrant as home quadrant, so in a Huge galaxy, they might get quite spread out.
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geordie
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

Yes, huge galaxy as always :), but this time a cluster one.
I have met only six minor races in the whole Gamma Quadrant, but all were quite distant from the Omarion nebula.
So far minor races were a huge asset in the game and now they are rather a burden and a reason to have them united is only to prevent other empires to do that or to expand the territory. I especially mean the races with small systems, up to 150 of populations. After becoming a member they are about 2-3 research level and suffer for a lack of populations for all the targets - food (it's a must), research (important now), security (low research would require a big number of units), so really no people for energy and production work.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

Yeah, Cluster galaxies tend to have lots of empty space, and so less minor races can be placed in the map. You can get 8 if you set them to max.

Can you make a list of those minor races with low pop homesystems?
Notice that the tech restrictions only applies to PFs. You can still build your own Buildings (like the Simulators fo more research), and the minor's special Building (for whatever it provides).
Security, in small systems you shouldn't need many (if any), 1 or 2.

This is a WiP, and what we're trying to achieve is described here:

viewtopic.php?f=300&t=3946

viewtopic.php?f=300&t=3942

viewtopic.php?f=300&t=3948

We could use more feedback on this, ofc!
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geordie
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

I have just found nearby, in Delta quadrant, a cluster with 4 minor races.
I my current game I met Trialus and Arghata with 120 pop., Hirogea - 140, Vhnor and Teplan were slightly better 180 and 190. Arghata have +30 on moons, but Teplan, Hirogea and Vhnor only 10. But there are others - Monea has usually only 80.
I thought that empire should support its members, so maybe allocate some its general RP ( for example max 10%) to minors races?
Some races - like Meridians - have only one earth-like planet, so no energy bonus. For fully populated Trialus and research level 2 I should allocate 2 units to security and 4 to farms (50% of total number), so how much energy Trialus could produce, as Dominion Quantum Simulator costs 65 and there are other needs of course, maybe shipyard, maybe HC? I assume that research allocation should be as high as possible, but almost nothing left. The only solution is 0 units for production and to buy all achievements.
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geordie
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

And the problem is that Trialus became a member 112 turns ago and they just started investigating level 4, so that minor race would not achieve level 6 before turn 400
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Re: Supremacy new release

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geordie wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:34 am I have just found nearby, in Delta quadrant, a cluster with 4 minor races.
What I meant was, since there's lots of empty space, there's less star systems. Since the number of minors is related to the number of star systems, there will be less of them.

I my current game I met Trialus and Arghata with 120 pop., Hirogea - 140, Vhnor and Teplan were slightly better 180 and 190. Arghata have +30 on moons, but Teplan, Hirogea and Vhnor only 10. But there are others - Monea has usually only 80.
I thought that empire should support its members, so maybe allocate some its general RP ( for example max 10%) to minors races?
Some races - like Meridians - have only one earth-like planet, so no energy bonus. For fully populated Trialus and research level 2 I should allocate 2 units to security and 4 to farms (50% of total number), so how much energy Trialus could produce, as Dominion Quantum Simulator costs 65 and there are other needs of course, maybe shipyard, maybe HC? I assume that research allocation should be as high as possible, but almost nothing left. The only solution is 0 units for production and to buy all achievements.
Some of those are intended. Intended in the sense that they are canon. The Meridians, for instance, have that weird phasing effect in their planet, and there are only 30 inhabitants. So if anything, they should have a *smaller* planet :wink: The Moneans, same thing, the Waters is a planetoid.
In these types of cases, we need to make sure their special Building has an energy cost that can be supported by the colony. And the build cost should be reasonale too. I think Teplan used to be smaller to simulate the Blight, but I may have increased its size, can't recall.

Yes, the empire should support its members, and that's what we're discussing in one of those threads I linked.

Notice that the purpose of this change was to make minors feel like precisely that, minor races. You'll get full income from them, besides everything else, so I fail to see how they can be a burden. Check those threads again for historical context.

You'll have to live without a shipyard in Trialus, it didn't have one in the first place :razz: And it's phasing wouldn't really be suited for one.
You can move those 2 security to industry while building, and hope you don't get hit, and then move them back. :wink:

Re the rest of the mentioned minors, Argratha is a fixed size homesystem, we can add more planets or increase the size of the homeplanet; it has an Ast and a GG to provide more bonuses. Vhnor is also fixed size, but with a large homeplanet and only has Ast. Hirogea has 2~3 random planets, so it can be a large system if the rng so chooses.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

OK. Taxes are important (and nice).
I fully agree that Star Trek canon is just a canon.
However please rewiev research facilities of minor races, for example Meridians have one - 150 research for 150 energy - no way to sustain that. It could be in really advanced game, but then it will be useless.
How do the specific research bonuses work now? For example B'omar has still Colonial Command with 50% bio research bonus. Is it a local one now?
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Re: Supremacy new release

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geordie wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:38 pm However please rewiev research facilities of minor races, for example Meridians have one - 150 research for 150 energy - no way to sustain that.
Yes, I need to scale those down. Did that to the %ResearchEW, but forgot these... :up:

How do the specific research bonuses work now? For example B'omar has still Colonial Command with 50% bio research bonus. Is it a local one now?
Nope. Those bonuses are global. Only the +Research and +%Research are local.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by xDx »

Hey Iceman,
I cannot believe after all these years this project is still going! I recently returned to BotF after a many year hiatus seeing what wonders SCT and TC have done for the original code.

Now I see your project has grown a bunch and so I downloaded the latest release from 6/16 and I am blown away at the depth and beauty. Thank you so much for all your work bringing BotF into the 21st Century.

Now to a question (you knew this was coming lol) and I do apologize in advance if this is taboo or if their is a separate topic on it but... 3D combat. Any discussion on this or is there a topic where we can follow the status towards implementation in game?
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." -- FDR
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

Hey xDx, glad to see you around/back!
I remember seeing you in the forums.

Yes, the project has grown tremendously, with the help of some wonderful people that have contributed to its development. :up:

Heh, no, it's not taboo, it's simply a difficult task. I don't think there's a topic for it in the public forums, no. But I'll move the one in the dev forum here, so that everyone can participate.

edit: done, it's a sticky topic.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by xDx »

Great! I'll read through it to see what everyone has been brainstorming.
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

For the next update:

- update to .NET 4.5.2
- fixed minor race liberation
- improved pathfinding
- improved AI exploration
- improved AI station building
- tweaked gift modifiers
- improved general performance and memory usage
- member/subjugated minors improve their research faster

A couple more changes for a later release:
- capped number of OBs in a colony to pop/25
- sliders in the Intel screen are now working
- added some empire info to the Intel screen (basic info, for testing purposes)
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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by xDx »

:up: :up: :up:
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." -- FDR
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