Feedback needed

Supremacy; support/discussion/questions

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Iceman
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Re: Feedback needed

Post by Iceman »

starkelja wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:34 am I didnt att them we had an alliance treaty. And from alliance they declared war on me. Could it be because of our border overlap? And why do they keep declaring war on me after we sign peace?
Did you attack other civs that they had contact with too? (The AI doesn't know how to make friends yet though, so that's not a reaction to attacking a friendly civ. I was about to code terraforming of minor race systems by the AI to help with that, BTW.)

So, let me try to recap. You're probably playing the Feds. You're allied (as in, have an Alliance treaty) with the Cards, Dom and Klings. The Klingons have zero Regard towards you, and DoW on you. You propose a Cease-Fire, they accept, and some time later they DoW again. Is this correct? I need to know the full context in order to understand the situation.
BTW, the last part is "intended", in that Cease-Fires only last for 25 turns - to give you a chance to improve relations. When the CF ends, Regard will go back to the previous value (modified by whatever you did in those 25 turns).
As for zero Regard with an allied civ, that's not intended... that treaty should have been cancelled.
And I need to find out what made their Regard towards an ally drop so drastically.

I oversaved that game, but their pop was decreasing to some lvl, then increased and then decreased again, like there isn't enough farms for growth, but if I encounter this again I will send save to you.
Ok, thanks. I've since overhauled the food production code. It's not perfect yet, but should be better.
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Re: Feedback needed

Post by Iceman »

Question for all the Dominion players out there:
When disabling "default" trade routes in minor race systems, I "accidentally" (as in, an oversight) also disabled them for The Great Link (any Link actually).
Now, in this game I started, I had to wait until I got to TL2 and get the +3 TRs Building to start trading with some minors. Not really sure what I felt about it, other than it didn't bother me that much, so the question is:

Should systems inhabited by Founders create default Trade Routes (1 per 125 pop) or should they have the same behaviour as non-Mercantile minor race homesystems (only through +Trade Routes Buildings) ?
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Re: Feedback needed

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So the AI will now terraform the homesystems of minor races in order to get better relations with them. I'd like some opinions on a particular aspect of this - and I guess this should be valid for both the AI and the human players.

:?: Should the AI/you need to have an Open Borders pact with a minor race in order to be able to terraform their homesystem?

If not,

:?: Should the AI/you be able to terraform the homesystem of an Isolationist minor race?

:?: If yes, should an Open Borders pact with that minor race be required to terraform their homesystem?



The first question is really about being able to terraform a system without formal "permission" from the owner.
The gameplay impact is that you first need to improve relations a bit (if it's not a civ that starts at Cordial or whatever with you) with an envoy or a small bribe in order to get the benefit from terraforming (improvement in relations). So you need to improve relations to get an improvement in relations (the phrase seems odd but that's intended).
At this point this hampers the AI a bit as it doesn't know how to offer agreements yet - but it does assign envoys.

The second question is about if a minor race that is specifically against having much contact with other races should be "forced" to "accept" having their planets terraformed.

The third question is a follow up on the second, forcing the terraforming civ to actually manage to get an agreement first. To notice that these races are a lot harder to improve relations with, so you'd have to work really hard before being able to capitalize on the terraforming benefits.
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Re: Feedback needed

Post by Iceman »

Re terraforming minor race systems, I'm thinking the Klingons and the Cardassians may not want to be so "generous", as increasing pop also means increasing Garrison. That might prove to be counterproductive at some point :twisted:

What do you guys think?
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Re: Feedback needed

Post by Iscaran »

No. I think they would also rather want the maximization of productivity. For large pop systems this is surely better then the drawback of more garrison needs.

(no Experience with garrisons yet, though due to long "first contact" times on huge galaxies.
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Re: Feedback needed

Post by Iceman »

I'm not sure you understood what I meant. I might have not put it correctly, so I'll rephrase.

When you terraform a system, max pop increases. That's clear.
The Garrison limit of a system depends on max pop of the system.
If you terraform an *independent* minor race's system (or any other for that matter), you will increase their max pop. That's a good thing if you're expecting them to become members of your empire.
BUT, as their pop grows, so does the system's Garrison. So, if you're planning on subjugating them (hence the reference to the Klingons and the Cardassians), you're actually making it harder for you to conquer the system.
On lower TLs, where your shipbuilding capacity is more limited and TTs carry less troops, this might be a serious handicap. The prize is surely more appealing, but if you made it much more difficult to get, you basically shot yourself in the foot?

It seems that you think that you need to spend resources to "build" garrisons, and that I was talking about minors that are already part of your empire?
Garrisons increase automatically. In *all* systems, except subjugated ones. Peaceful and Pacifist races also don't have Garrisons.
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Re: Feedback needed

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Notice that you can subjugate a minor race and *then* terraform the system.
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Re: Feedback needed

Post by Iceman »

Not sure if this has anything to do with what starkelja experienced, but raiding affects Regard. Not only with the colony owner, but with all civs in contact with them and the attacker.
The Regard penalty is temporary but is triggered for each raid, so it might get hefty if you're raiding several systems at once. I already reduced the penalty duration to 1 turn (so that the same penalty doesn't compound), and fixed a couple things (and still need to improve a couple more), but my question is:

Should I just remove the Regard penalties? Except for the colony owner if they're not at war with the attacker? (if they are, Regard is already low)
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Re: Feedback needed

Post by Borealis999 »

Hi Iceman,

It's been a long time since I last downloaded Supremacy, but I recently downloaded and installed version 20200701. I've been having lots of problems with the All In One game, to the point that I have given up with it now. I wanted to see how much has changed.

I do have some feedback for you with respect to my early attempts to play. The build cue nag I had about the last version I used - having to double click for every single item i want to build - is still a problem, but it's something I will live with. However, there is a little niggle that I have noticed when using the ships. The first scout class ship I built came out cloaked. I couldn't de-cloak it and it was only allowed to move one sector at a time. I couldn't set it up to move any further than the one sector. I couldn't even see it properly in the ship list. When I tried to add it to a task force, I couldn't select it. I couldn't even scrap the ship. In the end, I had to fly it into an ion storm and wait for it to be destroyed. It was only on the first scout I built. the next one was OK so it might have been a glitch.

Another thing I have noticed with regard to the ships is with naming them. I love that I can choose my own names for ships. I think that's an awesome touch. The problem is that a lot of the time the names I give don't stick. when I click the turn button the name reverts back to the name the game gave it... most of the time. Sometimes the name I give sticks, but not very often.

Is there something I can do to sort this out or could it be an easy fix for the next update?

Many Thanks

Borealis
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Re: Feedback needed

Post by Iceman »

Borealis999 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:46 am Hi Iceman,

It's been a long time since I last downloaded Supremacy, but I recently downloaded and installed version 20200701. I've been having lots of problems with the All In One game, to the point that I have given up with it now. I wanted to see how much has changed.
Hi Borealis, long time indeed! I had seen you posting in the AIO thread, and wondered when you'd get back to Supremacy :wink:
Great to have you back!

I do have some feedback for you with respect to my early attempts to play. The build cue nag I had about the last version I used - having to double click for every single item i want to build - is still a problem, but it's something I will live with.
Ah, yes, I remember that one. I added the CTRL and SHIFT keys for 5- and 10- items at a time, to alleviate the problem.
It might not be easy to do, from what I recall.

However, there is a little niggle that I have noticed when using the ships. The first scout class ship I built came out cloaked. I couldn't de-cloak it and it was only allowed to move one sector at a time. I couldn't set it up to move any further than the one sector. I couldn't even see it properly in the ship list. When I tried to add it to a task force, I couldn't select it. I couldn't even scrap the ship. In the end, I had to fly it into an ion storm and wait for it to be destroyed. It was only on the first scout I built. the next one was OK so it might have been a glitch.
That's odd. You wouldn't happen to have a savegame, would you?
You just unzipped the game and ran it, right? Or did you do anything else?

Another thing I have noticed with regard to the ships is with naming them. I love that I can choose my own names for ships. I think that's an awesome touch. The problem is that a lot of the time the names I give don't stick. when I click the turn button the name reverts back to the name the game gave it... most of the time. Sometimes the name I give sticks, but not very often.
Hmm, I thought that issue had been fixed...
IIRC, before it was "fixed", you would have to - after typing in a name - click ... where was it? The name box of another ship? For it to stick. Or something.

Is there something I can do to sort this out or could it be an easy fix for the next update?
No, I don't think so.
Thanks!
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Re: Feedback needed

Post by Iceman »

Another thing I have noticed with regard to the ships is with naming them. I love that I can choose my own names for ships. I think that's an awesome touch. The problem is that a lot of the time the names I give don't stick. when I click the turn button the name reverts back to the name the game gave it... most of the time. Sometimes the name I give sticks, but not very often.
If you change the names of several ships in the same sector, only the last one will not stick - the rest will. In this case, after changing the last one, if you select another ship and click on its name box, it will.
If there's only one ship in the sector, it won't stick... because you can't select another box.
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Re: Feedback needed

Post by Iceman »

In the current public build, you get a small penalty to relations when you colonize a system that is in a sector that touches the border of another civ's territory.

Yesterday I made that penalty (larger and) depend on the potential size of the colony - because the higher the population of the colony, the larger its zone of influence, and hence in this particular situation, the more sectors that will potentially become contested.
I also extended that penalty to building stations in such sectors, with starbases having larger penalties (again due to larger ZoI, and scan range).

Now to the feedback part.
Should this happen both when the sector is inside your ZoI AND when it is in unclaimed space? And if so, should these situations have different modifiers?
Currently both situations trigger the penalty. I tested this by restricting the penalty to unclaimed sectors only, and so I could colonize and build stations in my territory (bordering the other civ's) without penalty (and still affecting the other civ's territory, and gaining scan data), but this had the downside that upgrading stations would not compound the penalty (as the sector was already owned by you - but this could be circumvented with some more code).
I'm not sure how I feel about this (the amount of testing was minimal), so any feedback (as empirical as it might be) could help.


Maybe make AIMode (Normal, Hard, Impossible) affect this?
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